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Wikipedia:Templates for discussion

On this page, the deletion or merging of templates, except as noted below, is discussed. To propose the renaming of a template or templates, use Wikipedia:Requested moves.

How to use this page

What not to propose for discussion here

The majority of deletion and merger proposals concerning pages in the template namespace should be listed on this page. However, there are a few exceptions:

  • Stub templates
    Stub templates and categories should be listed at Categories for discussion, as these templates are merely containers for their categories, unless the stub template does not come with a category and is being nominated by itself.
  • Userboxes
    Userboxes should be listed at Miscellany for deletion, regardless of the namespace in which they reside.
  • Speedy deletion candidates
    If the template clearly satisfies a "general" or "template" criterion for speedy deletion, tag it with a speedy deletion template. For example, if you wrote the template and request its deletion, tag it with {{Db-author}}. If it is an unused, hardcoded instance or duplication of another template, tag it with {{Db-t3|~~~~~|name of other template}}.
  • Policy or guideline templates
    Templates that are associated with particular Wikipedia policies or guidelines, such as the speedy deletion templates, cannot be listed at Tfd separately. They should be discussed on the talk page of the relevant guideline.
  • Template redirects
    List at Redirects for discussion.

Reasons to delete a template

  1. The template violates some part of the template namespace guidelines, and can't be altered to be in compliance
  2. The template is redundant to a better-designed template
  3. The template is not used, either directly or by template substitution (the latter cannot be concluded from the absence of backlinks), and has no likelihood of being used
  4. The template violates a policy such as Neutral point of view or Civility and it can't be fixed through normal editing

Templates should not be nominated if the issue can be fixed by normal editing. Instead, you should edit the template to fix its problems. If the template is complex and you don't know how to fix it, WikiProject Templates may be able to help.

Templates for which none of these apply may be deleted by consensus here. If a template is being misused, consider clarifying its documentation to indicate the correct use, or informing those that misuse it, rather than nominating it for deletion. Initiate a discussion on the template talk page if the correct use itself is under debate.

Listing a template

To list a template for deletion or merging, follow this three-step process. Note that the "Template:" prefix should not be included anywhere when carrying out these steps (unless otherwise specified).

I Tag the template.
Add one of the following codes to the top of the template page:
  • If the template nominated is inline, do not add a newline between the Tfd notice and the code of the template.
  • If the template to be nominated for deletion is protected, make a request for the Tfd tag to be added, by posting on the template's talk page and using the {{editprotected}} template to catch the attention of administrators.
  • For templates designed to be substituted, add <noinclude>...</noinclude> around the Tfd notice to prevent it from being substituted alongside the template.
  • Do not mark the edit as minor.
  • Use an edit summary like
    Nominated for deletion; see [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:name of template]]
    or
    Nominated for merging; see [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion#Template:name of template]].
  • Before saving your edit, preview your edit to ensure the Tfd message is displayed properly.

Multiple templates: If you are nominating multiple related templates, choose a meaningful title for the discussion (like "American films by decade templates"). Tag every template with {{subst:tfd|heading=discussion title}} or {{subst:tfm|name of other template|heading=discussion title}} instead of the versions given above, replacing discussion title with the title you chose (but still not changing the PAGENAME code). Note that TTObot is available to tag templates en masse if you do not wish to do it manually.

Related categories: If including template-populated tracking categories in the Tfd nomination, add {{Catfd|template name}} to the top of any categories that would be deleted as a result of the Tfd, this time replacing template name with the name of the template being nominated. (If you instead chose a meaningful title for a multiple nomination, use {{Catfd|header=title of nomination}} instead.)

II List the template at Tfd.
Follow this link to edit today's Tfd log.

Add this text at the top, just below the -->:

  • For deletion:
    {{subst:tfd2|template name|text=Why you think the template should be deleted. ~~~~}}
  • For merging:
    {{subst:tfm2|template name|other template's name|text=Why you think the templates should be merged. ~~~~}}

If the template has had previous Tfds, you can add {{Oldtfdlist|previous Tfd without brackets|result of previous Tfd}} directly after the Tfd2/Catfd2 template.

Use an edit summary such as
Adding [[Template:template name]].

Multiple templates: If this is a deletion proposal involving multiple templates, use the following:

{{subst:tfd2|template name 1|template name 2 ...|title=meaningful discussion title|text=Why you think the templates should be deleted. ~~~~}}

You can add up to 50 template names (separated by vertical bar characters | ). Make sure to include the same meaningful discussion title that you chose before in Step 1.

If this is a merger proposal involving more than two templates, use the following:

{{subst:tfm2|template name 1|template name 2 ...|with=main template (optional)|title=meaningful discussion title|text=Why you think the templates should be merged. ~~~~}}

You can add up to 50 template names (separated by vertical bar characters | ), plus one more in |with=. |with= does not need to be used, but should be the template that you want the other templates to be merged into. Make sure to include the same meaningful discussion title that you chose before in Step 1.

Related categories: If this is a deletion proposal involving a template and a category populated solely by templates, add this code after the Tfd2 template but before the text of your rationale:

{{subst:catfd2|category name}}
III Notify users.
Please notify the creator of the template nominated (as well as the creator of the target template, if proposing a merger). It is helpful to also notify the main contributors of the template that you are nominating. To find them, look in the page history or talk page of the template. Then, add one of the following:

to the talk pages of the template creator (and the creator of the other template for a merger) and the talk pages of the main contributors. It is also helpful to make any interested WikiProjects aware of the discussion. To do that, make sure the template's talk page is tagged with the banners of any relevant WikiProjects; please consider notifying any of them that do not use Article alerts.

Multiple templates: There is no template for notifying an editor about a multiple-template nomination: please write a personal message in these cases.

Consider adding any templates you nominate for Tfd to your watchlist. This will help ensure that the Tfd tag is not removed.

After nominating: Notify interested projects and editors

While it is sufficient to list a template for discussion at TfD (see above), nominators and others sometimes want to attract more attention from and participation by informed editors. All such efforts must comply with Wikipedia's guideline against biased canvassing.

To encourage participation by less experienced editors, please avoid Wikipedia-specific abbreviations in the messages you leave about the discussion, link to any relevant policies or guidelines, and link to the TfD discussion page itself. If you are recommending that an template be speedily deleted, please give the criterion that it meets, such as "T3" for hardcoded instances.

Notifying related WikiProjects

WikiProjects are groups of editors that are interested in a particular subject or type of editing. If the article is within the scope of one or more WikiProjects, they may welcome a brief, neutral note on their project's talk page(s) about the TfD. You can use {{Tfdnotice}} for this.

Tagging the nominated template's talk page with a relevant Wikiproject's banner will result in the template being listed in that project's Article Alerts automatically, if they subscribe to the system. For instance, tagging a template with {{WikiProject Physics}} will list the discussion in Wikipedia:WikiProject Physics/Article alerts.

Notifying substantial contributors to the template

While not required, it is generally considered courteous to notify the good-faith creator and any main contributors of the template and its talkpage that you are nominating for discussion. To find the creator and main contributors, look in the page history or talk page.

At this point, you've done all you need to do as nominator. Sometime after seven days have passed, someone will either close the discussion or, where needed, "relist" it for another seven days of discussion. (That "someone" may not be you, the nominator.)

Once you have submitted a template here, no further action is necessary on your part. If the nomination is supported, helpful administrators and editors will log the result and ensure that the change is implemented to all affected pages.

Also, consider adding any templates you nominate to your watchlist. This will help ensure that your nomination tag is not mistakenly or deliberately removed.

Twinkle

Twinkle is a convenient tool that can perform many of the functions of notification automatically. However, at present, it does not notify the creator of the other template in the case of a merger, so this step has to be performed manually. Twinkle also does not notify WikiProjects, although many of them have automatic alerts. It is helpful to notify any interested WikiProjects that don't receive alerts, but this has to be done manually.

Discussion

Anyone can join the discussion, but please understand the deletion policy and explain your reasoning.

People will sometimes also recommend subst or subst and delete and similar. This means the template text should be "merged" into the articles that use it. Depending on the content, the template page may then be deleted; if preserving the edit history for attribution is desirable, it may be history-merged with the target article or moved to mainspace and redirected.

Templates are rarely orphaned—that is, removed from pages that transclude them—before the discussion is closed. A list of open discussions eligible for closure can be found at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Old unclosed discussions.

Contents

Current discussions

December 13

Star Wars film navigational boxes

Unnecessary excessive duplicate navigation. There is a main {{Star Wars}} navbox, plus navboxes for {{Star Wars characters}}, {{Star Wars music}}, {{Star Wars planets and moons}}, {{Star Wars vehicles}}, etc, etc, etc. We don't need one for each film as well, which duplicates the characters (have a look at the R2-D2 page to see why this is a problem), locations, ships, etc, etc. --woodensuperman 13:56, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:PKNA

The navbox is no longer necessary as all the links now redirect to a non-existent section that was culled for being fancruft. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 05:44, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

  • Delete. Useless navbox, as each link redirects back to the main article. JIP | Talk 08:50, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

December 12

Template:Orlando Predators roster navbox

team is defunct, there is no current roster Frietjes (talk) 21:51, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:National anthem footer

Like Template: Chinese history topics (see Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2017 October 28#Template:Chinese history topics), this makes no sense for two reasons. First navigation boxes are for navigating between articles, not templates which are not normally directly linked from articles. Second it violates the principle of least surprise, that readers should not be surprised by where a link takes them. It might make sense as something not included, for navigation between the templates when working on them. But there is already a category for that Category:National anthem templates JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 13:32, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Some nations is inter-continent, and most of the nations in Europe have relationship linking to other continent. So it should not be deleted. Ulysses Faye Ohkiph (talk) 04:05, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

December 11

Template:Daerah di Malaysia

Unused. Maybe it might have a use, but as of now it hasn't. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:40, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Bydgoszcz City Councillors

Navbox that connects articles deleted per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Members of Bydgoszcz City Council. Renata (talk) 16:52, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:South Korean awards table

Propose merging Template:South Korean awards table with Template:Awards table.
The former should be merged into the latter. The only difference between these two templates is the order of the parameters ("Category"/"Award" and "Recipient"/"Nominee/work"). The function between the two is exactly the same. xplicit 07:04, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

December 10

Template:Taxonomy/Saldamosaurus

Originally tagged for speedy deletion by @Apokryltaros as a hoax. Would like some community input before deleting. Thanks, FASTILY 20:17, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Please read this --Mr Fink (talk) 20:26, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Taxonomy/Saldamosauridae

Originally tagged for speedy deletion by @Apokryltaros as a hoax. Would like some community input before deleting. Thanks, FASTILY 20:17, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

comment: This template and Template:Taxonomy/Saldamosaurus (edit · talk · history · links · logs · subpages · delete) were created by a serial hoaxer who has been repeatedly banned at Wikipedia for creating pages, drafts and now templates for fake species and or WP:OR.--Mr Fink (talk) 20:19, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
The articles Saldamosaurus and Saldamosauridae also need to be deleted, for the same reason. Peter coxhead (talk) 21:40, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Members of Dáil Éireann by session header

Unused, and redundant to the more comprehensive {{Teachtaí Dála category navigation header}}.
This template was created by @Spleodrach back in 2008, when members of Dáil Éireann were categorised only by term. It did its job well for that limited set of categs, but subsequently Teachtaí Dála have also been categorised in other ways, e.g. by party. So I created the more comprehensive {{Teachtaí Dála category navigation header}} and applied it to all senator categs, removing this {{Members of Dáil Éireann by session header}}. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:31, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

  • Delete - unused and redundant. Spleodrach (talk) 18:16, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Power Macintosh models templates

Not used, and is an unusually esoteric property to group articles by. Warren -talk- 06:07, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Timeline of Macintosh OS

Not used, and is redundant to Template:Timeline of Macintosh operating systems. Warren -talk- 06:07, 10 December 2017 (UTC)


December 9

Template:Sony franchises

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete as per {{db-author}} Vejvančický (talk / contribs) 06:34, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

This is just Template:Sony Interactive Entertainment Worldwide Studios but it just has the franchises listed, making this completely useless and redundant. Namcokid47 (talk) 20:26, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Endurance sports and games

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted by Hyacinth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 00:01, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Could categorize these subjects by this name, but a navbox isn't appropriate. It's not doing anything a category could not, and has no potential to. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 20:11, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Members of Seanad Éireann by term header

Unused, and redundant to the more comprehensive {{Members of Seanad Éireann category navigation header}}.
This template was created by @Spleodrach back in 2008, when members of Seanad Éireann were categorised only by term. It did its job well for that limited set of categs, but subsequently senators have also been categorised by constituency and by party. So I created the more comprehensive {{Members of Seanad Éireann category navigation header}} and applied it to all senator categs, removing this {{Members of Seanad Éireann by term header}}. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:31, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

  • Delete - as it is now redundant. Spleodrach (talk) 13:25, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Wlink

Unclear use, a similar template was deleted in the past. – Train2104 (t • c) 03:14, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

  • delete, pointless. Frietjes (talk) 12:51, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Delete, not necessary considering the means of wikilinking it's intended to replace is simpler and more commonly known. Was created by a user who'd only registered for Wikipedia a month earlier and has sparsely edited since. Speaks of a lack of experience in good faith. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist (Speak quickly) (Follow my trail) 20:14, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:PD-USGov-GPO

Unused, replaceable by {{PD-USGov}} FASTILY 00:25, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:PD-USGov-Fed

Unused, replaceable by {{PD-USGov}} FASTILY 00:25, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

December 8

Template:Remobox

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted as G2 by RHaworth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 17:16, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Template serving no apparent specific purpose other than perhaps to promote its author Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:59, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Wuhan Gators

connects only two articles Frietjes (talk) 22:15, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:LLSWSQualifiers-Pre2001

unused and not needed Frietjes (talk) 22:11, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:LKL Teams 05/06

old and unused navbox (replaced by templates like Template:LKL) Frietjes (talk) 22:10, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:LG smartphones

unused, and appears to duplicate other templates (e.g., Template:LG phones, Template:Android smartphones, ...) Frietjes (talk) 22:09, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Korea Squad 2014 FIBA World Championship for Women

unused, all redlinks, 13th place squad, roster is saved in 2014 FIBA World Championship for Women squads#Korea Frietjes (talk) 22:06, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Koleje Śląskie lines

unused (and only two templates in Category:Koleje Śląskie templates) Frietjes (talk) 22:00, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:1978–1987 Superman film series

Propose merging Template:1978–1987 Superman film series with Template:Superman in popular media.
A lot of the links here are not directly related/do not originate in the film series (characters, locations, etc), so these are not really suitable for inclusion here. If these were to be trimmed, then what we have left could easily be incorporated at {{Superman in popular media}}, if they aren't already. Target could also use some trimming of the parodies, and largely unrelated/tangential entries (Seinfeld, songs which happen to mention Superman etc, etc). --woodensuperman 12:36, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

  • Weak support. It would be best to merge them and then post a permanent link to how big the template is so others can vote with sufficient information. ―Justin (koavf)TCM 05:33, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
Looking at {{Superman in popular media}} more closely, I think the only link I would consider appropriate to add would be Superman III (soundtrack). The rest are either already included, or inappropriate as I note above. With some of the more spurious links removed per my suggestion above, we could be looking at a substantially smaller template anyway. --woodensuperman 14:15, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 17:53, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Merge, and trim the main template as suggested. Renata (talk) 16:18, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Merge but go easy on the trimming (although yes, music and parodies can probably all be removed). Randy Kryn (talk) 10:28, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Ed Kowalczyk

Too little content to navigate. Fold the couple of relevant articles into Template:Live (band)Justin (koavf)TCM 01:50, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 17:52, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Delete, too little content. Renata (talk) 16:16, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Infobox artist signature

we should either (a) add a signature parameter to {{infobox artist}}, or (b) don't add signatures to artist infoboxes. either way, we don't need this template to do it. Frietjes (talk) 17:32, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

  • Support the former, (a). This was just a workaround, and Frietjes has shown how to do that better. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:27, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Weak support for (a), just to be consistent with other signature things in bio infoboxes. Many editors are not convinced we should retain them at all. A recent RfC, however, did not conclude with consensus to remove them, so at least do them consistently while they are here.  — SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ<  15:58, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Support (A), signatures are very interesting and relevant additions to some infoboxes. Randy Kryn (talk) 10:30, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Arabic name

Propose merging Template:Infobox Arabic name with Template:Infobox given name.
Redundancy. Variables should be able to merge. Chicbyaccident (talk) 23:40, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

  • I'm not sure I see the point of the merge as the two templates don't have any overlap: {{Infobox given name}} is the infobox that goes with articles about given names and has fields about the origin, meaning etc. {{Infobox Arabic name}} on the other hand is a sub-box to be tacked to infoboxes about historic Arab personages and its function is to display in a structured way the various component parts of the typically long name. – Uanfala 00:16, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nihlus 17:21, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Yuan family tree

unused Frietjes (talk) 17:13, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Wikibookssub

unused Frietjes (talk) 17:11, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

unused, not clear why we need a template for this since it would violate WP:SIG#NT Frietjes (talk) 17:10, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:WEByr

unused, most likely replaced by other cat header templates Frietjes (talk) 17:06, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

December 7

Template:Station/h

appears to be a test page, old and only used in one sandbox Frietjes (talk) 21:11, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Riddle

Userspace-only template used only by inactive user. – Train2104 (t • c) 01:36, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

  • User is not inactive (I'm right here). What makes it irrelevant? Primetime210 (talk) 17:39, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
  • move to userspace or delete, the comment above was the first edit by the author in over two years (and no subsequent edits). Frietjes (talk) 14:10, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Easycolor

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted as G2 by RHaworth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 19:17, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Malformed color box template, borderline G2. – Train2104 (t • c) 01:20, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Infobox television Duelo

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted as G2 by RHaworth (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT 19:17, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Unused infobox. – Train2104 (t • c) 01:18, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Infobox Trijang Rinpoche

Single use infobox, replace with {{infobox person}} or a derivative. – Train2104 (t • c) 01:16, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Subotica Bus Detail Urban

Unused and we don't have an article on buses in Subotica, so no foreseeable use. – Train2104 (t • c) 01:11, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

December 6

Template:Kim Hee-chul

These templates are duplicates of each other. The inclusion of the subject's filmography violates WP:FILMNAV. This leaves the discography and publications sections; none of the topics have articles, so there is nothing to link. This leaves little to navigate, and is ultimately useless. xplicit 06:09, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:CC BY-ND 2.5 IN

This Creative Commons license has a restriction on derivative works making any file uploaded with this license eligible for WP:F3 aside from usage as non-free content. In the rare case that a file with such a license is being used as non-free content, the existing copyright templates are sufficient for licensing and documentation. As such, there is no real use for this template. Whpq (talk) 01:06, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Those rare case when a Fair Use image is licensed under CC BY-ND 2.5 IN, we need this template. Hence, do not delete.
Then such a file is non-free, in which case the correct tag to use would be something in Category:Wikipedia non-free file copyright tags -FASTILY 06:33, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Left step periodic table (compact)

Delete. Not used in mainspace, and not maintained (not updated, improved). {{Periodic table (left step)}} is the current live version. DePiep (talk) 10:24, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Old discussions

December 5

Template:Least

this template was very useful before the addition of "maxwidth" to module:InfoboxImage and module:Location map, but now it's no longer needed (could be redirected to template:min?), and if it really is needed, we could add an |error= to template:min, which would be functionally equivalent to what this template does over template:min. note that {{min}} already discards non-numeric entries, so it probably is functionally equivalent already. Frietjes (talk) 17:21, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

December 4

Template:Infobox artist discography2

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was Speedy deleted by creator - it was only created as an illustration for a discussion of {{Infobox artist discography}}. RockMagnetist(talk) 16:56, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

was probably useful back in 2015, but at this point, it is redundant to the sandbox Frietjes (talk) 19:10, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Ahnentafel bottom

Propose merging Template:Ahnentafel bottom with Template:Ahnentafel-compact5.
Suggest merging all preexisting templates in Category:Ahnentafel formatting templates into Template:Ahnentafel-compact5 (please note that the ones listed in the category but not here below were locked for unknown reasons). The final template would then be called perhaps simply Template:Ahnentafel. Reasons for this merge is that it should be possibly to merge with code into one single, unified template. This template would then possibly contain different amount of places - ergo generations - as is already the case, only that this could be indicated and visually exemplified in the template documentation in a more suitable way. This solution of one merged template would make only one such be the subject of discussion of style - arguably the preexisting one - which would then make biographical articles more consistent, and the template use more easy for Wikipedians to apply. Chicbyaccident (talk) 13:20, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

comment How do you suggest to make the new template easy-to-use? It sounds like you want one template. It seems quite easy to use e.g. {{Ahnentafel-compact4}} and {{Ahnentafel-compact4}}. Christian75 (talk) 12:11, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Ahnentafel top

Propose merging Template:Ahnentafel top with Template:Ahnentafel-compact5.
Please see above. Chicbyaccident (talk) 13:20, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Ahnentafel-compact4

Propose merging Template:Ahnentafel-compact4 with Template:Ahnentafel-compact5.
Please see above. Chicbyaccident (talk) 13:20, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Ahnentafel-compact6

Propose merging Template:Ahnentafel-compact6 with Template:Ahnentafel-compact5.
Please see above. Chicbyaccident (talk) 13:20, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:PD-art-3d

unused, replaceable by {{PD-old-100}} and/or {{Photo of art}} FASTILY 01:07, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

  • Keep. Not easily replaceable by the proposed tags; provides more clarity given the dual copyright of a photo of 3D works in jurisdictions without FOP. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:31, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Because the combination is contradictory. As written, {{Photo of art}} seems to suggest that (1) the artwork is still copyrighted and (2) the photo is freely licensed - and therefore {{PD-old-100}} would seem to apply to neither. In fact it appears there is only a single image that uses that particular combination, and in the context of that image it makes no sense. Whereas this tag makes it clear that (1) the artwork is out of copyright due to age, but (2) an additional tag is needed for the photo copyright. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:22, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 22:56, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
  • That is simply untrue. The |pdsource= parameter in {{Photo of art}} exists for the exact scenario you just described. -FASTILY 03:22, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
  • And the tag under discussion here provides a clearer understanding of the situation than that, IMO. You're welcome to believe otherwise. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:32, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
  • delete, unused. if someone needs to use it, we can have it undeleted. Frietjes (talk) 14:38, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
    • I tried to use it. "Unused" is only a rationale for template deletion if it has no likelihood of being used, and that isn't the case here. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:19, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
      • I see, the retag as {{PD-US}} is clearly wrong since the photograph is not over 100 years old, only the subject of the photograph is that old. Frietjes (talk) 16:40, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nihlus 04:33, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Keep, current usage doesn’t indicate that it needs to be deleted as it is a maintenance template. As explained above, this is not easily substituted by a combination of licensing templates. Not all countries have freedom of panorama for 3D art. 165.91.12.190 (talk) 12:21, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Indian awards

Propose merging Template:Infobox Indian awards with Template:Infobox award.
Redundant. Proposal includes if needed merging variables that may be of a wider range of use in the general award template. Chicbyaccident (talk) 23:48, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Looking for comments on the potential merge into Template:Infobox military award instead of the proposed.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nihlus 04:10, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Support. No opinion on the military/civilian/award infoboxes, but this can happen first regardless. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 23:14, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Support No reason these two need to be kept separate. cnzx (talk) 17:37, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

December 3

Template:NLL Drafts

Only one article in the nav box exists. NLL draft articles are not likely to be started and shouldn't be. NLL Season and team articles can cover the drafts. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 04:15, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

  • delete, we can navigate between the two articles using standard in-article linking. Frietjes (talk) 15:05, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Liga Super seasons

Propose merging Template:Liga Super seasons with Template:Malaysia Super League.
Template:Liga Super seasons content contains in Template:Malaysia Super League and Liga Super redirect to Malaysia Super League. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 07:45, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 00:24, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Politics of East Germany

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was withdrawn Frietjes (talk) 15:25, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

unused, many of the links are not East Germany-specific, but instead about Germany as a whole, and are hence covered by Template:Politics of Germany. the elections are in Template:East German elections. Frietjes (talk) 13:43, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

  • Keep Not sure whether we're looking at the same template, but the vast majority of links I see in that template are East Germany-specific. The only three that aren't are the two links to Elections and Referendums, which are misleading and I have now delinked; the only outstanding one is to the CDU. Number 57 15:49, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nihlus 01:29, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Still no input on the unused nature of the template. More comments would be nice.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 00:23, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:B.

These templates are not safe for COinS use in citation templates, and with the exception of NY are unused. I also don't see much point in their usage, given that typing out the templates actually takes the same (or more) number of characters than simply typing out the names. And while "NY" and "Oxf" are somewhat clear, "B." makes zero sense as an acronym for "Berlin".

There are other similar templates in Category:Templates:Locations in bibliography but the nominated pages use English characters while the others use Cyrillic. However, I am not opposed to extending this nomination to all templates in that category. Primefac (talk) 15:29, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

If there's not enough consensus I'm fine starting a new discussion, but there's not been any opposition so far... Primefac (talk) 00:21, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Looking for further discussion on Cyrillic templates.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nihlus 00:23, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Comment well that was fast. I've added the TFD notice to the other templates. Primefac (talk) 00:28, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
  • replace/delete, too obscure. Frietjes (talk) 15:51, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Minhaj-ul-Quran International

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was convert to a navbox Frietjes (talk) 15:57, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

not a series. better served as navbox. Störm (talk) 16:11, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 01:21, 25 November 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 00:23, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
  • convert to navbox per nom. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 15:25, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

December 2

Template:Hungama TV Original Series

Unnecessary, not all shows are Hungama original programming and all aired shows can be found in Wikipedia article "List of programs broadcast by Hungama TV" User 261115 (talk) 13:51, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

December 1

Opal fares

WP:NOTGUIDE and WP:NOTMIRROR. It's essentially content uplifted from the Transport for Sydney website. Even smart card operators in other cities do not have lists of fares on their wikipedia articles. Ajf773 (talk) 19:35, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

  • merge with one of the two transcluding articles, and use WP:LST or simple section linking to show/link in the other. Frietjes (talk) 15:03, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
    The discussion is for deletion, not merging. Wikipedia is not the place for details about travel fares, the Transport for NSW website is. Ajf773 (talk) 06:15, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:TeamPositionChampionSwap

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was Delete for multiple reasons:

AnomieBOT 05:04, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

unused Frietjes (talk) 17:48, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Albanians Got Talent

Not enough links to justify a navbox --woodensuperman 16:58, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

  • Delete. Agree with nom. Navbox's are useless for such few links (and this would most likely be a a navbox on the target links article anyhow). Ajf773 (talk) 19:55, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
  • But...but...what about Season one? Well, okay, delete. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:31, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Black Hippy

Seems unnecessary. Only links the members, and one song, which is a Jay Rock song anyway. --woodensuperman 12:01, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

  • delete The four members each have nav boxes of their own. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 15:21, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Template:Selena Gomez songs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was merge.

Consensus has been reached where the two navboxes do not need to be kept separate in order to aid navigation. (non-admin closure) Nihlus 02:04, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Propose merging Template:Selena Gomez songs with Template:Selena Gomez.
No justification for two navboxes. The main {{Selena Gomez}} navbox only has about six four additional articles that aren't linked in the "songs" navbox, so this can all be easily handled by a single navbox. THIS seems to be the last good version. --woodensuperman 14:49, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure how you can claim that the standard layout for musical artist navboxes is incomprehensible! If you really need it explaining, the first group has a chronological list of albums, the next a chronological list of singles, etc, etc. It couldn't be clearer or simpler. I can't see how anyone could possibly find it difficult to understand. However, you're clearly just opposing this as a matter of misguided principle and haven't considered why we would possibly need an extra navbox for four additional links. --woodensuperman 15:14, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
Yes, your version is incomprehensible to a normal person cause it groups her songs into non-intuitive categories ("Singles", "Promotional singles", "Other songs") instead of grouping them by album. For example, your version has "Birthday" (from the album Stars Dance) in the "Other songs" section and "Me & the Rhythm" (from the 2015 album Revival) in the "Promotional singles" section. When everything is grouped by album, it is much more intuitive. A normal person is more likely to know that "Me & the Rhythm" is from Selena Gomez's latest album than that is was a promotional single. --Moscow Connection (talk) 18:47, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
I think a "normal person" may not know which album a song is from, having heard it on the radio, etc, etc. An unbroken chronological list of singles is the most intuitive grouping, as it assumes no prior knowledge of the artist. --woodensuperman 13:34, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
The average person is much more likely looking to know what album a song is from so they can download/stream it or perhaps go buy a physical copy than whether it had a single release. It's easier to find that out when sorted into columns by album rather than scattering an album's tracks among multiple columns. Snuggums (talk / edits) 14:48, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
I disagree. Especially nowadays, when music consumption is not as album-centric as it was in the previous few decades. --woodensuperman 15:05, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
What I'm getting at is that by knowing what album a track is from, people have a better sense of what to search for when they'd like to buy or stream it even if only interested in that one song. Sorting by album is therefore not only more logically organized but also neater rather than scattered. Snuggums (talk / edits) 15:11, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Again, I disagree. We are not a tool to aid purchasing. By splitting up the singles chronology in favour of grouping songs by album, you lose the career progression. If a song is a single, then this is a more defining characteristic than which album it was on. You would not break it up at Selena Gomez discography, you should not do that here. --woodensuperman 15:16, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
You obviously didn't take into account the fact that navboxes aren't supposed to be singles discographies and shouldn't be treated as such, especially for cases like this when not all songs that warrant articles are singles. Snuggums (talk / edits) 15:33, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
The fact a song is a single is far more important than what album it is on. By splitting it by album, it is very difficult to find the singles amid the less notable album tracks, and creates unnecessary clutter. This does our readers a disservice, especially as they are not necessarily aware of the album the single is from. As I state above, we should assume no prior knowledge of the artist. --woodensuperman 15:40, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Are you fucking kidding me!? Single release (or lack thereof) isn't pertinent to song navboxes unlike discography or album articles and you very well know it (particularly when not every song that warrants an article is a single). Calling certain tracks "notable" or "less notable" is blatantly biased, and personal opinions on tracks don't belong here. I seriously doubt the average person would be concerned with whether something had a single release when looking for song articles here. Calling album organization "unnecessary clutter" is also total bullshit when everything from an era/sub-era is in one place. Furthermore, it most certainly does NOT presume readers have any prior knowledge, contrary to what you've implied. *Shakes head in disappointment* Snuggums (talk / edits) 15:53, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Your descent into this kind of language yet again demonstrates again how unreasonable you are to deal with. I'm fed up with this, but I will add that no, I am not fucking kidding. A navbox should be chronological, and grouping the singles together makes 100% sense. THIS is intuitive, and THIS is how we best serve our readers. Look at how unhelpful {{Beastie Boys singles}} is. Their first three singles are lost in the "Other singles" section, when they should clearly be the first three entries, this is not split by era as you claim, and this will always be the case when non-album singles are around. Splitting down into albums has made us sacrifice an important piece of the chronology. --woodensuperman 16:00, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
No; my language if anything demonstrates my frustration with how flawed your reasoning is and refusal to listen to logic. I'm actually a reasonable person. Anyway, navboxes ≠ discography articles (even if the only songs that warrant articles are singles), therefore single chronology isn't a focus for them. The general viewing public isn't likely to care what order singles were released in unless they're looking a discography page. Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:15, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
If you're navigating between songs and/or albums, the assumption is that you would want to see where in someone's career these fall. You look at one single article, and then navigate to the single after that, and the single after that, etc, etc. The same logic applies for novels or films in navigation boxes dedicated to them. This is why we don't put navboxes in alphabetical order. For most musical artists, their singles are the way most people are introduced to the artist, so we should not be splitting these down. We've both said a lot on this subject now, I think that our respective points of view are clear. I'm done now. I'm not going to descend into your "flawed reasoning"/"refusal to listen to logic" bullshit. --woodensuperman 16:24, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
If someone is interested in career placement, the average person is more likely looking to know what album it came from, so they'll have a sense of which collection came out when. Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:31, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
  • merge, no need for two navboxes. Frietjes (talk) 17:14, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Strong support. Duplicative; it is not useful for navigation to have separate templates. James (talk/contribs) 21:23, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Merge per numerous precedents and the general common sense of consolidation of artist-specific stuff into a single navbox.  — SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ<  16:37, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose when there's over 4 times the amount of song articles as any other type combined for Gomez, and the main one is supposed to be more of an overview in this case when songs have their own rather than a collective song listing. The organization in song navbox shown here also makes it easier to find certain tracks than what OP links above. Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:56, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Comment. Also note this prior discussion. --woodensuperman 15:19, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 17:26, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Merge Some of the merge comments talking about precedents of previous discussions misread the consensus, it is not that all song/singles templates should be merged with the main navigational templates, but that there is a certain point where there are too many song/singles to justify having a single template and splitting it into two makes for better navigation. Having said that, this template is not to that point. Aspects (talk) 08:58, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nihlus 05:05, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Merge, results in a better template and per other performers' templates. Songs do not have to be broken up into individual albums on templates, they are a stand-alone work as well as being part of the album. The format seems to be used for songs, short stories on author's templates, and poetry throughout Wikipedia's templates. Nice work by woodensuperman to format the examples of this and other performers-output templates listed below. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:50, 1 December 2017 (UTC)'
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Katy Perry songs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was merge to Template:Katy Perry. Consensus has been reached where the two navboxes do not need to be kept separate in order to aid navigation. Some arguments additionally pointed out that some navigation is lost by keeping them separate. (non-admin closure) Nihlus 02:13, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Propose merging Template:Katy Perry songs with Template:Katy Perry.
No need for two navboxes. Can easily sit at this version without being remotely "bloated" as one editor seems to believe. By unnecessarily forcing this into two navboxes, you lose a dimension of navigability as you cannot navigate between the articles on the songs navbox and the articles on the main navbox, not to mention losing the full chronology of singles, etc. --woodensuperman 15:45, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

  • Oppose no navigability is lost at all by splitting. If anything, it's actually improved by helping people see which songs came from what album, and chronology of singles belongs in a discography article rather than a navbox when her singles aren't the only songs she's made that warrant pages. It also helps the main one from being inflated (which is supposed to be an overview instead of a song collection list). You obviously don't care at this point about whether something gets overfilled and are dismissing size concerns for no valid reason. Snuggums (talk / edits) 15:50, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Yes it is. With the navbox split, you cannot navigate to (for example) Katy Perry videography from any of the singles articles. --woodensuperman 15:53, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
People are much more likely to navigate to a musician's biography or an album page from a song, so you're clearly just looking for far-fetched excuses to justify a needless bloat (and doing a poor job at defending it). Going from videography to singles pages isn't of much (if any) concern. Snuggums (talk / edits) 15:57, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
No, I'm not "looking for far-fetched excuses". We serve our readers best by having a single navbox for each topic, so that they can navigate however they please with all the articles at hand. Only when a navbox really does get too big (and this is not remotely the case here) should we consider splitting into smaller navboxes. As for your comments regarding my "poor job at defending it", I would suggest you remain WP:CIVIL, this is completely unnecessary. --woodensuperman 16:02, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Criticizing one's actions as subpar isn't the same as being uncivil. Anyway, you most certainly ARE just making excuses to defend something that does much more bad than good; don't try to pretend like you don't know that. When over half of the 50+ pages pertaining to a subject are song articles, it's unquestionably enough to warrant a split. Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:11, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Maybe not exactly uncivil, but you're clearly trying to goad me. Please WP:AGF. I am most definitely NOT just making excuses. I sincerely believe that our readers are best served with all articles related to a topic contained in a single navbox. I also believe that the best way of presenting a list of singles in a navbox is as a clean single group chronology. I find the navboxes which have these chronologies destroyed by grouping the singles by album to be counter-intuitive and cluttered. --woodensuperman 16:19, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Even if you do have good intentions, what I'm trying to do above all else is demonstrate how your reasoning is flawed. Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:24, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
There's nothing wrong with my reasoning. The issue is nothing more than a difference of opinion of how this information is best presented. I am certainly not alone in my opinion, just as you are not alone in yours. We'll just have to agree to disagree. --woodensuperman 16:25, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The purpose of templates is to facilitate navigation. In the proposed version it's very hard to find the song you need. --Moscow Connection (talk) 17:01, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
  • merge, no need for two navboxes. Frietjes (talk) 17:14, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Strong support. Duplicative and makes navigation more difficult to have separate navboxes. Established precedent. James (talk/contribs) 21:28, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
  • That's a total crock of shit when A) it DOES NOT duplicate listings by having songs in their own navbox, B) One can much more easily see specific songs when not jumbled into ridiculously big groups, and C) there is no "established precedent" against song's having their own navbox (especially when there's a big collection taking up more than half of total pages pertaining to a subject), contrary to what you've implied. Snuggums (talk / edits) 22:32, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose Merging constitutes creating a bloated up navbox with undistinguishable songs. As SNUGGUMS said, there is and never was any precedent set for this kind of merge. Woodensuperman did basically act on his own accord and starting disrupting. —IB [ Poke ] 06:09, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
Did you not look at the previous discussions I posted at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2017 November 13#Template Taylor Swift songs, which demonstrates a clear precedent in other similar cases? --woodensuperman 09:52, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
Calling it a "precedent" is a stretch; don't make exaggerations. Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:06, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
Whenever this comes up at TFD it nearly always results in a merge or a delete. I wouldn't call it a stretch to call that a precedent. Here's a few more for you:
Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2015 August 6#Template:Hilary Duff songs
Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2015 June 19#Template:Meghan Trainor songs
Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 July 22#Template:Nina Sky songs
Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2009 April 21#Template:Sum 41 singles
--woodensuperman 16:33, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
You're obviously not taking into account the amount of articles that were/weren't songs. In Sum 41's case, they had more songs over time where it later got to the point that a separate navbox was warranted. As for the others, small amount of songs in comparison. You're incorrectly implying the notion is as simple as "always put songs in main navbox". Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:41, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Merge per numerous precedents and the general common sense of consolidation of artist-specific stuff into a single navbox.  — SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ<  16:36, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • "Precedent" is an oversimplified notion, and "common sense" is meaningless as an argument when the so-called "common sense" isn't all that common. Snuggums (talk / edits) 16:41, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 17:26, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Merge Some of the merge comments talking about precedents of previous discussions misread the consensus, it is not that all song/singles templates should be merged with the main navigational templates, but that there is a certain point where there are too many song/singles to justify having a single template and splitting it into two makes for better navigation. While more songs than Selema Gomez's above, the number of song is about equal to the other number of links in the template, so the template is not needed at this point. Aspects (talk) 08:58, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nihlus 05:05, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Merge the two up. It's actually the same thing, redundant to have two. Her songs should be in her own navigation box as those songs are part of her. Ernestchuajiasheng (talk) 11:41, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Merge, the merged version seems fine, and per other entertainers' templates format. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:46, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Taylor Swift songs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was not merge. Consensus has been reached where the two navboxes should be kept separate in order to aid navigation. (non-admin closure) Nihlus 02:18, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Propose merging Template:Taylor Swift songs with Template:Taylor Swift.
No need for two navboxes, as the information can easily be handled by a single navbox, which isn't too big. See this version. --woodensuperman 09:10, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

  • Oppose. The purpose of templates is to facilitate navigation. In the proposed version it's very hard to find the song you need.
    By the way, I would like to note that the nominator seems to feel very strongly against not only all the songs templates on Wiki, but against grouping songs by album in musician templates in general. And he has changed probably hundreds of templates on Wiki into his preferred format without any consensus.
    Also see the discussion "Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2017 March 10#Template:Adele songs". The voters seemed to favor the merge, but it was because they liked the Adele template where the songs were grouped by albums. The next day after the discussion closed as "merge", the nominator came and merged all the songs into one section: [1]. --Moscow Connection (talk) 10:07, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Off topic, but re the Adele navbox, the majority of the editors favoured the version I suggested in the nom. Only one had a preference for breaking it down by albums. --woodensuperman 11:27, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Primefac said "merge if done like this", and then the next editor voted "per above". --Moscow Connection (talk) 11:44, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
"Per above" could mean either. --woodensuperman 11:52, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose for every detail that Moscow Connection mentioned. Woodensuperman, stop grouping general and song templates like this and cause disruption. —IB [ Poke ] 11:06, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
These types of navbox are regularly merged. See the Adele example above, and many other discussions for precedent. Two navboxes when one would do just as well hinders navigation, as you cannot reach the articles in the main navbox from the song navboxes. A navbox should be unmanageable before a split is necessary. This is clearly not the case here. --woodensuperman 11:27, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
And what is your justification for a single navbox being mroe useful? Your edit virtually creates a clutter of a navbox. Swift already has so many releases as songs/singles/tracks apart from her main album releases, that it is indeed unmanageable. You acted against consensus or any kind of consensus, result being we are here. —IB [ Poke ] 13:54, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
With a single navbox all related articles are visible. See the point I make below regarding the inability to navigate from Fearless Tour to Fearless (Taylor Swift song) with the two navbox situation. This does not benefit our readers. And my edit isn't against general consensus. There is a precedent to merge navboxes like this. See the many different related merge discussions... Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2010 November 24#Template:Lionel Richie singles, Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2016_June_8#Template:The_Cure_singles, Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2012_August_18#Template:Jamiroquai_singles, Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2013_September_11#Template:A_Day_to_Remember_singles, Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_27#Template:Pink_Floyd_singles, Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2009_November_5#Template:R.E.M._singles, Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2016_December_16#Template:Avicii_songs, etc, etc, etc. --woodensuperman 14:09, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Some of the template above are merged because it only have little song in a row (see before merged: Template:Avicii songs and Template:A Day to Remember singles, the other are deleted) while Swift's template has more than 5 songs per row. Also there are some templates that is not merged like {{Madonna songs}} and {{Queen singles}}. Hddty. (talk) 15:34, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose not only is it harder to find songs in the linked revision, but it bloats a navbox that is supposed to serve as more of an overview than song collection when a separate song navbox was made. Even though I personally disagreed with the Adele outcome, keep in mind it was done because people didn't feel there were enough songs to warrant a separate navbox, and never said anything against splitting out in the future when more songs come out. Taylor has many more song articles than Adele, and probably more than any other type of article she has here combined. It's much easier to sort through by album in a separate navbox in this case when she has so many; the other version as it doesnt have any ridiculously big columns compared to others, plus the linked edition is too singles-centric when it's not supposed to be a singles discography (especially when there are pages for non-singles). Snuggums (talk / edits) 13:32, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
This still doesn't justify two navboxes. Two navboxes are clearly more difficult to navigate than one, as you're missing half the links wherever you are. The two navbox situation means that you cannot navigate between, say, Fearless Tour and Fearless (Taylor Swift song). With just one navbox this would be possible. A singles navbox should only be created when one navbox becomes impossible, not as a matter of course. Pink Floyd released a lot more songs and albums than either artist being discussed here, but note also this RfC: Template talk:Pink Floyd#RfC: Should the Pink Floyd singles template be restored?. --woodensuperman 13:42, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Please be reasonable; your logic is flawed and you obviously didn't take into account how bloated navboxes become in cases like that (which I'm not sure if you even care about). Also, while WP:OTHERSTUFF admittedly isn't that strong of a point, keep in mind that consensus can change over time and the reasons given in that RFC to have one navbox were flawed. On another note, when Taylor has a bunch of pages for non-singles, she would have a SONGS template rather than a SINGLES template (which would solely consist of singles). Snuggums (talk / edits) 13:54, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
The point in this specific case is that the merge of the two navboxes would not be remotely bloated. Therefore we don't need to separate. --woodensuperman 14:05, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Surely you jest; it very needlessly clutters the main navbox to have all song pages listed, and we could avoid all of that by having separate navboxes. It looks so much cleaner and concise without all of them listed, which I've now counted as 57, over twice the total of everything else combined at 21. No valid reason not to split with totals like that. The negatives of having one navbox here easily outweigh any potential positives. Snuggums (talk / edits) 14:45, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
No, of course I don't jest. There is no clutter whatsoever, this is a pretty standard number of links for navboxes of this kind. 57 articles is not a lot by any standards, and certainly not enough to necessitate a split! There are no negatives to having just one navbox for Taylor Swift. --woodensuperman 14:54, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
That's fucking ridiculous; when over half of the pages listed are songs (roughly 73% in this case) and there's 50+ total pages, it's more than enough reason to split! The biggest negatives are bloating and faulty-at-best organization (especially when not sorted by album). Snuggums (talk / edits) 15:04, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
It's "fucking ridiculous" to have two navboxes for a single artist with only 50+ articles to link. Oh and actually, the "by album" sorting is problematic, as you lose the opportunity for a properly chronological singles progression, which is a far better way to present the group to our readers. --woodensuperman 15:10, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
No, it's too singles-centric to group everything by singles and non-singles; the navbox isn't supposed to be a singles discography and those aren't the only types of songs that have articles. With album sorting, readers get a better sense of which songs came from where. Snuggums (talk / edits) 15:13, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
That sort of information is for a discography article, not a navbox. A chronological progression is the best way to present articles in a navbox. You're worried about bloating, yet there is nothing that causes bloat more than a lot of additional groups. Again, compare other navboxes, {{R.E.M.}} or {{Kate Bush}}, etc, etc, etc, where one navbox with a single group for singles does an excellent job. --woodensuperman 15:16, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
On the contrary, that just gives undue emphasis to singles over non-singles. Furthermore, the albums that songs come from isn't just discography detail; it's also pertinent to "List of songs recorded by _______" pages (which don't include things solely based on whether they had single releases). Snuggums (talk / edits) 15:31, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Emphasis of singles over non-singles is not undue, as singles are usually more well known than album tracks. I agree that the information regarding which album a single comes from belongs in "List of songs by" articles as well as discographies, but this information is not needed in a navbox. --woodensuperman 15:35, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
You're obviously not getting the point; whether a song was released as a single isn't pertinent to a navbox the way it is to a discography page. Even if her singles were the only songs that warranted articles (which isn't the case), it would still bloat the navbox by listing those and would look even worse when not organized by album (creates a ridiculously huge listing compared to other groups). Snuggums (talk / edits) 15:40, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
  • merge, no need for two navboxes. Frietjes (talk) 17:15, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Strong support. Duplicative; it is not useful for navigation to have separate templates. Furthermore, I see no valid arguments above for overriding the consensus established by past precedent. James (talk/contribs) 21:25, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
TRUE per my comments HERE --woodensuperman 09:53, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Merge per numerous precedents and the general common sense of consolidation of artist-specific stuff into a single navbox.  — SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ<  16:37, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • What about the idea of keeping them separate but merged ala Template:Sarah Connor? See Unbelievable (Sarah Connor album) for how it's laid out in an article. It allows one to navigate between all things related to the artist while only expanding the area of which one may be most interested. Although, since singles and songs navboxes are simply split from the main {{Navbox musical artist}} template, it would follow that they should use the same background color as the artist navbox. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 22:57, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
  • I fail to see how having two navboxes under one name makes sense. The name suggests only one or a main navbox, and we shouldn't give viewers misleading ideas. Snuggums (talk / edits) 23:26, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Strong oppose. There are four rows on the singles column on the merged version; it would be five rows taking into account that "Safe & Sound" and "I Don't Wanna Live Forever" actually must be on the singles column instead of the Collaborations section, besides that, having that many articles overloaded in one section makes the chronological singles progression really hard to follow. If your complain is that users won't be able to find the songs on the main template, then they can click on the list about Tay's songs that it's located just below Taylor's name and between her videography and live performances lists. Also, you can't compare Adele to Taylor because the latter has WAY MORE articles; the chronology of singles doesn't really matter for the songs template, and, like SNUGGUMS said, you can't just focus on the singles when there's many articles about Taylor's songs that were not singles. I agree with SNUGGUMS to keep the two templates splitted because it is needed to have one that offers an overview and another that compiles her songs, which are the 73% of her articles. Regards, --Paparazzzi (talk) 21:24, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Comment. Also note this prior discussion. --woodensuperman 15:20, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Comment Again, those cases are different from Taylor. She has a lot of articles about songs thats were not singles, she has released so many singles that they would be overloaded on one section of the merged template. That's why is needed to keep splitted in two templates, one for the overview, and another one for the songs (the songs, where the chronology of the singles is not important). Every case you cite can't be compared to Taylor, because, like I said before, the amount of articles is just bigger, and not focused exclusively to the singles. Regards, Paparazzzi (talk) 16:35, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
Not really. {{R.E.M.}} has a number of non-single songs and it is handled quite simply. No need to make a special case here. --woodensuperman 16:57, 20 November 2017 (UTC)
The case you just mentioned above is way worse than this one; it has never been splitted, so there has never been a consensus to keep it as one template. It is necessary to open a votation there to split it into two templates, because it's hard to follow the singles chronology and having another template for the songs would be better. Paparazzzi (talk) 02:25, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
But there has been consensus. See Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2009 November 5#Template:R.E.M. singles. --woodensuperman 09:01, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Yes, a consensus from 2009, and the only comparable case you have found. Like I said, independently to whathever some user from that time said, that template looks horribly overloaded and needs to be splitted. Anyway, going back to here, I still oppose to this template being merged, and it seems that most of the users who has voted think the same as me. Regards, Paparazzzi (talk) 04:27, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 17:26, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose Some of the merge comments talking about precedents of previous discussions misread the consensus, it is not that all song/singles templates should be merged with the main navigational templates, but that there is a certain point where there are too many song/singles to justify having a single template and splitting it into two makes for better navigation. The number of song links vastly outnumbers the number of other links in the combined template as stated above, so in this case I feel it makes for better navigation. Aspects (talk) 08:58, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nihlus 05:05, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Support, I at first was skeptical but after looking at the proposed template, and reading the comments, this seems the appropriate way to go for a one-place understandable template per other performers' templates. It is also standard template practice for short stories, poems, paintings listed as both a series and as individual pieces on artist's templates, etc. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:41, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Moscow Connection, Indian Bio, and Paparazzzi's listed reasons. Paintspot Infez (talk) 23:45, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Best works

Well intended template, but it just doesn't have enough entries to justify its existence. There is nothing here that a "see also" section can't easily handle. It has been around a year now and hasn't evolved. Betty Logan (talk) 00:58, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

  • Strong Keep – I don't know why this is an issue. This is making a mountain out of a molehole. Fireflyfanboy (talk) 01:00, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Delete – this template is indeed too small. There's no reason to keep it. ~Mable (chat) 08:50, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Delete. Fails WP:NAVBOX. --woodensuperman 13:40, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Keep ChristianKl (talk) 15:44, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Strong delete – Fails WP:NAVBOX. Having fun! Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 15:54, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • delete, navigates between only three articles. Frietjes (talk) 16:04, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Weak keep, because I trim links out of See Also that appear in article text. This template would keep that from happening. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:21, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • I don't believe a 'See also' link between "best video games" and "best films" is needed anyway. ~Mable (chat) 18:43, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
  • delete three uses, template's use is trivial and non-authoritative at best. Who decides what should be added? And on what basis is best? Not our task as editors of an encyclopaedia to make the call. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:52, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
  • @Billinghurst: This discussion is not about the content of the template, but about the template itself. Assuming these articles remain in place, should the navbox also stay? ~Mable (chat) 07:44, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
    I clearly understand that. My point is that templates where users define "best" are PoV templates and contrary to our construction of an encyclopaedia. We should not host them full stop.— billinghurst sDrewth 09:31, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Keep There is no harm in having this template and it has opportunities for expansion, e.g. authors (based on say List of best-selling fiction authors). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Juxlos (talkcontribs) 09:54, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Keep and expand to include, for example, List of best-selling albums, and Great books. — Hugh (talk) 21:18, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Keep; I've added H1's books, but this is a quality thing, not a quantity thing, so the albums and the fiction authors don't belong. "Who decides what should be added" Billinghurst, editors should find lists of things considered the best and add those lists to the template. This is a template for articles discussing other people's opinions, not a template for what we think are the best in this field or that. Nyttend (talk) 13:20, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
    It is a gimmick template that ends up at the the tail of a useless page like List of video games considered the best. As an encyclopaedia, we can simply do better. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:30, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
    It is irrelevant to this discussion whether pages such as that are useless or not. ~Mable (chat) 18:04, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
    To the contrary, if the page is useless, we shouldn't encourage it by having a template. [I don't believe they're useless, and I believe such templates useful.] Thank you for the informed vote; I just want to make sure that we don't get votes, whether keep or delete, by people who misunderstand the situation. Nyttend (talk) 06:06, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 17:34, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Nyttend's complaints seem to have more to do with a perception that this template is "useless" (well, that's just like, your opinion, man) more than it has to do with objective facts.Fireflyfanboy (talk) 17:56, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Delete. Fails WP:NAVBOX. Bondegezou (talk) 12:10, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
  • For all the people who say that this fails "fails WP:NAVBOX" (thanks for adding only three words to the discussion, BTW!) Why is there not a similar debate happening about Template:Worst works? The hypocrisy of Wikipedia editors astounds me sometimes... Fireflyfanboy (talk) 17:54, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
When the two templates are so gosh-darn similar, an article shouldn't be used to point to as some kind of fix-all solution... Fireflyfanboy (talk) 01:01, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
I assume the people who post only those three words are referring to the fact that the navbox contains too few items. This was the reason I support the deletion of this template, anyway. The worst works template contains more articles and stands on its own. Maybe a merger of the two is an option, though. ~Mable (chat) 14:18, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Giving this one more week to see if consensus emerges.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nihlus 04:53, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Keep and expand. Seems a good idea. Randy Kryn (talk) 13:44, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Completed discussions

The contents of this section are transcluded from Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Holding cell (edit)

If process guidelines are met, move templates to the appropriate subsection here to prepare to delete. Before deleting a template, ensure that it is not in use on any pages (other than talk pages where eliminating the link would change the meaning of a prior discussion), by checking Special:Whatlinkshere for '(transclusion)'. Consider placing {{Being deleted}} on the template page.

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