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Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

Marvin 2009

Marvin 2009 and PatCheng are indefinitely topic banned from Falun Gong, broadly construed --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 16:21, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Marvin 2009

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
PatCheng (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 13:44, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested
Marvin 2009 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Falun Gong
Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  • Note that Marvin 2009 now go by the name Precious Stone as a signature, but his user name remains Marvin 2009.
  1. 6 June 2020 Engaged in soapboxing, and proceeded to remove WP:SPA labels in a discussion page.
  2. 11 June 2020 Blanking the Falun Gong article page, accusing it of being biased, removing sourced material and and also misusing the Citation Needed tag over sources he dislike. Warned by admin User:Doug_Weller as a result.
  3. June 12 2020 In regards to Doug Weller's warning, he claimed that his previous warnings were the result of "biased activists", highlighting his battleground mentality. Further warned by admin User:El_C.
  4. June 3 2020 June 4 20205 June 2020June 5 2020 In a timespan of 48 hours, continued to insert and revert a paragraph suiting his POV, including several that fail WP:RS such as a Forbes contributor site and the personal site of a conservative activist. A 3RR case was filed against the user but seem to have gone stale.
  5. June 6 2020 Suggested another editor of being a Wumao (paid editor by the Chinese government).
  6. June 6 2020 Same as above, using an article from The Washington Times to suggest that the editor was paid.
  7. June 6 2020 Attempted to link supposed pro-CCP edits with real life Chinese spying, suggesting a moral obligation to out them.
  8. June 6 2020 Further suggestions that other editors are Chinese spies, using real life spies being caught as an examples.
  9. June 7 2020 More accusations of other editors of being biased against him and FLG.
  10. May 1 2009 This old edit on his user page, as well as since deleted uploads [1] showed that he attempted to advertise for Falun Gong affiliate New Tang Dynasty TV, possibly violating WP:SPA, WP:COI, and WP:PROMO.


The following were raised in my previous request:

  1. 16 June 2019 In my June 2019 ANI case, he dug up some of my old edits, and together some random news articles, engaged in soapboxing and slyly suggested that I'm a CCP spy, and that my behavior on Wikipedia of being "against the freedom of belief and the freedom of expression, those pillars of modern civilization".
  2. 22 May 2019 Soapboxing about the evils of CCP in a RFC comment about number of FLG members.
  3. 29 April 2019 Similar soapboxing on talk page, attempting to discredit sources critical of FLG.
  4. 31 March 2019 Calling for the removal of Chinese government sources, using a US-funded NGO as evidence.
  5. 31 March 2019 Same as above.
  6. 27 March 2019 Further soapboxing, accusing another user of being "50 Cent Party" (a slur against users deemed pro-CCP).
  7. 27 April 2019 Accused another user of being a "CCP apologist".
  8. 7 February 2016 Previously engaged in 3RR violations and demonstrated a clear disregard of WP policy, launching a 3RR case against the user who reported him [2].
  9. 6 December 2015 Accusing other users in the 3RR case of being "CCP sympathizers".



Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
  1. 6 Dec 2015 48 hour block for edit warring
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
  1. March 2016 By Happymonsoonday1
  2. June 2019 By MrClog
Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Marvin 2009 almost exclusively edit the contentious Falun Gong articles, pushing a POV that favors the practice. I previously filed a case against this particular editor in 2019, noting his problematic editing behaviors. He was warned by admins about the discretionary sanctions per WP:ARBFLG, but it's obviously that his behavior has not improved in the year since. Marvin 2009/Precious Stone displays a shocking lack of WP:COMPETENCE in his edits at Wikipedia, including problems with WP:NPOV, WP:CIVIL, WP:AGF, WP:RS, WP:SOAPBOX, WP:BATTLEGROUND and possibly WP:COI. I felt that a topic ban might be warranted due to his continued edit warring and disruptive accusations against other editors on contentious articles such as Falun Gong.

@Pudeo's comments: I have taken a self imposed WP:BREAK and WP:VANISH from WP for over a decade due previous bad experiences and not willing to be caught up in arguments and edit wars, plus some real life health issues. I still read WP, and I have noticed that the Falun Gong articles, despite having two arbitration cases WP:ARBFLGWP:ARBFLG2, over the decade seemed to be worse to wear with more and more single purposes accounts showing up. Marvin's behavior, especially his less than civil attacks against other editors, is what drove me to file the complaint. Furthermore, I do not edit Chinese WP, and only noticed User:Wetrace's edit patterns upon visiting the corresponding Chinese WP article for additional sources.
@BlueCanoe's comments: Using real life politics to indirectly infer that certain editors are CCP agents still breaches WP:CIVIL, not to mention WP is not a soapbox for politics per WP:SOAP.
@Admin Guy's comment: The editing tool is misleading in context. The only Falun Gong related article I have edited since I returned to Wikipedia is The Epoch Times, where I was commended for adding better sourcing to the article. As such I felt it's a false equivalence to compare me with Marvin, particularly since I avoided mass reverting of articles and battleground mentality in the talk pages, and I made efforts to seek outside opinions on sourcing.
@Marvin's comments: Your responses here demonstrates lawyering WP:PLAYPOLICY and a clear battleground mentality, and the fact that other editors may not have clean hands doesn't change your behavior which you continually attempt to justify, including calling my evidence "fake" right here, and that it's some "plot" against you. I called out your behavior in particular because they are in contradiction to WP policy, and you don't see me going after other pro-FLG editors (who while having ideological biases, at least attempt to adhere to WP policies and open to discussion). FYI, what the editor did to the CBC article was using the Wayback Machine to synthesize an argument which contradicts WP:NOR, when the editor's note is clearly on the current article, so I reverted it.
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
  1. [3]


Discussion concerning Marvin 2009

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Marvin 2009

Please see part A~E1 of my response at User_talk:Marvin_2009/AEresponse: A- Communication with admin Seraphimblade, B. Replying User Pudeo's comment, C. Responding PatCheng's fake accusations, D. Responding admin JzG/Guy's Opinion, E1. How WP:NPOV spirit lost in Epochtimes related – Response to PatCheng and other like-minded users’ POV driven editing

E2. Quoting Media Reports in Response to Doug Weller's POV & Edits

PatCheng deleted Toronto Sun sources [4] which reported: “Some postal workers misread the publication as being critical of ethnic Chinese and objected to its delivery. This sort of misreading is not much different from calling criticism of Trump anti-American.“ This view is opposite to PatCheng’s view: ET being anti-PRC. Isn't it the reason the report was removed? Only allowing sources supporting their POV is directly against WP:NPOV.

PatCheng viewed ET as anti-PRC (in reality ET criticizes CCP, not the country), but PatCheng is not alone. For example, admin Doug Weller's view on FLG related topic and Chinese government is shown in: 1.“I'm finding what appear to be Falun Gong adherents pushing edits on various articles, hence this notice, 2.“This came to my attention as there's been an upsurge of Falun Gong adherents editing articles here, possibly taking advantage of Covid-19 to push attempts as well as their own articles.

Please note there are so many reports from numerous reliable sources that have nothing to do with FLG, but all have criticized China’s communist party’s cover-up. To name some FYI.

1. NYT: CCP Crackdowns Coronavirus Coverage, Journalists Fight-back
2. [5] 
3. [6].
4.[7]
5.[8] 
6 [9] 

Bloodofox violated WP:V, WP:NOR...For users who tried to prevent Bloodofox's damages, Doug often showed up for reverting, warning. 2 examples: 1 and 2.

After seeing Bloodofox and HorseEyeJack's disruptive edits: 3 (Not reasonable putting info of overseas FLG follower groups ahead of the FLG origin section), 4 (In prior discussion it was advised to make clear NYT/NBC reported ET was involved right-wing politics), Bloodofox's major change 5 (applied the lead section of the stable page under DS, with no discussion or consensus), I tried to address the issues. Right away i was reverted and warned by Doug, which partly led to PatCheng's report. Both the warning and report seem to be POV driven. Precious Stone (Marvin 2009) 03:20, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Statement by (Horse Eye Jack)

I’ve encountered the same problems with Marvin 2009 re POV pushing, threats, and aggression. They spammed my talk page with the copy-pasted discussions from their talk page [10][11] which remains a unique form of disruption, never seen anyone else do that. After I pointed out to them back in the day that they appeared to be an SPA only interested in the FG space they developed an intense interest in refrigeration although the quality of editing didn't improve (they were still adding unsourced information). I note that in out COI discussion they repeatedly said they had never been paid for their edits but never addressed the other aspects of COI, they appear to believe that without direct payments its not COI. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 15:57, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

I tagged SPA’s as SPA’s if you disagree with my tag you are welcome to do so... On the appropriate talk page, not here. There is no debate that Marvin 2009 was a SPA when I tagged them. Given that you also appear to have a problematic edit history in regards to FG related topics I would watch it lest you get Bommeranged by your participation here. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 22:43, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Even if PatCheng is sketchy the core point stands... Marvin 2009 is clearly WP:NOTHERE, I’ve discussed bringing them here with other editors before. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 22:46, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Statement by TheBlueCanoe

At some point this dispute (the broader dispute) should probably be punted to ArbCom. But with respect to this application, the filing editor certainly has an unusual history: no edits since 2006, and then they return with unusual precocity and an apparent axe to grind.

It looks like the OP is really reaching here. Some examples:

  • [12] OP accuses Marvin 2009 of WP:Soapboxing. I don’t see any soapboxing. I see Marvin undoing a talk page edit by User:Horse_Eye_Jack, in which the latter had erroneously tagged every editor who disagreed with him as an SPA. Marvin 2009 was probably in the right here.
  • [13] – OP accuses Marvin 2009 of blanking content. The context is important: Marvin is undoing significant changes that had failed to gain consensus on the talk page. Although the material was sourced (badly, in some cases), it appeared to fail WP:NPOV, WP:LEAD, WP:WEIGHT, and possibly WP:V. Reverting an edit that being contested on the talk page is not, by itself, sanctionable behaviour.
  • [14] - OP says Marvin 2009 was trying to “advertise” for a Falun Gong-affiliated organization by, what…creating a page, whose content we can’t see? We can't draw inferences about an editor's intentions based on a deleted media file.

To the charge that Marvin was accusing others of being pro-Chinese government agents, I’m not seeing it in the diffs provided. I don’t know what the context was, but talking about the existence of a 50 cent army, and noting that the Chinese government engages in international influence campaigns, may be a legitimate matter for discussion. As long as he’s not making unsubstantiated allegations about specific editors, which doesn't seem to be the case (unless I missed it). TheBlueCanoe 21:09, 20 June 2020 (UTC)


Statement by Pudeo

What's up with the OP making no edits at all for 12 years and 8 months (2006-2019), and then his first edits are reporting Marvin 2009 to ANI and AE in June 2019? Some comments by Marvin 2009 indeed do seem battleground-y, but it is troubling if the driving force behind this is some kind of a spillover from the Chinese Wikipedia (which Marvin edits according to his global contribs).

PatCheng refers to conduct in the Chinese Wikipedia in another comment directed at Wetrace: Your conduct on Chinese WP demonstrated that you have a very low knowledge of WP:RS and WP:V. However, according to the global contribs, PatCheng does not edit the Chinese WP. Something does not add up. --Pudeo (talk) 19:24, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Statement by Doug Weller

Marvin2009 seems to think that because I edited the same page that my warning doesn't count because I'm not impartial as I was taking part on the talk page. Any editor can give a warning, and being impartial is obviously not a criteria. I'm not impartial to BLP violations, editwarring, misrepresenting sources, etc, nor should anyone be (just examples, I'm not accusing Marvin2009 of them). As for El_C, his statement was" "Precious Stone, Doug might not block you, but I will. You cannot invoke DS as an editor involved in the page, only an uninvolved admin can do that. And I am doing so with you. Start discussing and stop reverting." That's clearly a warning, warnings don't have to use templates or say "formal". I endorse TBans for both editors. Doug Weller talk 14:38, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

@Guerillero, Seraphimblade, and JzG: what's happening here? I see that there's more recent discussion at User talk:Marvin 2009. Doug Weller talk 11:34, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Result concerning Marvin 2009

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • My view: PatCheng and Marvin 2009 both topic-banned from Falun Gong broadly construed as POV-warrior accounts after reviewing [15] and [16]. Guy (help!) 08:59, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
    FYI, I am doubling down on this following Marvin's responses which are very much along the lines of "I am right so none of this is a problem". Guy (help!) 10:57, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
Doug Weller, mainly because he would not stick to the word limits here. Guy (help!) 12:45, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Guy, in a recent enforcement request (I'll try to look it up and link it here) I noted how there seemed to be a lot of long-dormant accounts suddenly becoming active again when a Falun Gong dispute crops up. I think this is a pattern that might need to be examined more thoroughly; this is certainly not the first time. Seraphimblade Talk to me 22:55, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
    Here is the one to which I'm referring. That being said, Marvin 2009 also has a history of popping in and out of activity, and some of the behavior brought up here is genuinely a cause for concern. So even if there needs to be a boomerang here, I don't think that's all that needs to happen. Seraphimblade Talk to me 23:14, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
    Seraphimblade, Plausible. I say TBANs for both, based on edit history. Guy (help!) 23:59, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
    Marvin 2009, first off, it always raises my antennae when someone is using a fake signature. Your username should be in your signature (though you could always do something like "Marvin 2009 aka Precious Stone" or "Precious Stone (Marvin 2009)"). If you wanted to actually change username, there is a process for that. That aside, you have been edit warring. I thought that the last discussion placed Falun Gong under 1RR, but I don't see that it was marked as such; if not I plan to swiftly rectify that, but I won't blame you for it since I don't see the notice. That aside, edit warring, even if under the "RR" limit, is still disruptive. You've also been casting a lot of aspersions, such as that other editors are some type of activists or agents. You seem to assert here [17] that one must open a discussion before making an edit, which is exactly backwards—everyone may edit, and if anyone else disagrees, discussion then is the way forward. Edits should not be reverted simply for not being discussed in advance. So, to be quite honest, I agree with Guy, in that neither one of you really have any business editing in such a sensitive topic area at this time. Seraphimblade Talk to me 00:58, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
    @Seraphimblade and JzG: Since we got another round of reverts, I imposed 1RR on the article as an attempt to keep things from descending to edit warring again --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 18:06, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
    Guerillero, good shout. Guy (help!) 20:46, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
    In addition, Marvin 2009, could you please explain why you removed a comment by Guy in this edit? [18] Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:08, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
  • I would hand out topic bans to PatCheng and Marvin 2009 --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 14:44, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Urgal

Urgal has been indefinitely topic banned from post-1932 American politics, with an appeal to be entertained no sooner than in six months. Bishonen | tålk 17:28, 30 June 2020 (UTC).
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Urgal

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
MrX (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 01:16, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested
Urgal (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBAPDS :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. June 22, 2020 - 1st Revert
  2. June 22, 2020 - 2nd Revert - Violates both page editing restrictions
  3. June 22, 2020 - 3rd revert - Undid most of this edit
  4. June 21, 2020 - Misrepresents a source to inject non-WP:NPOV WP:SYNTH
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
  1. May 30, 2020 Blocked for edit warring
  2. May 31, 2020 Blocked for edit warring
  3. June 1, 2020 Block extended for sockpuppetry
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
  • Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.
  • Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on May 30, 2020
Additional comments by editor filing complaint


Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[19]

Discussion concerning Urgal

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Urgal

What's this even about? I self-reverted every one of the mentioned edits. whats the problem? Its just easy to forget about the regulation in the heat of the moment Urgal (talk) 01:18, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

" I suggest three months to see if they can learn how to edit more temperately elsewhere before being allowed back into this controversial area. I'm not impressed by their removal of part of MrX's evidence from this page either."

i removed it because i dont think it has any relevance when discussing a violation of the 1RR regulation; didnt know thats not allowed. (plus it says 'previous relevant sanctions'). regarding the topic, it was only 2 edits, and i re-reverted them myself, so i dont think a 3 month ban is appropriate Urgal (talk) 03:52, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

@Glen

"then used multiple sockpupppets while blocked" i used ONE sock during the 3 day block, the other account was just a secondary account that i used from time to time when i was on another device. i didnt use it to edit while blocked

"while claiming he didn't know that was against policy even though he has been editing here for over ten years). i have been registered here for 10 years, but im only actively editing since like 2 months.

regarding this annoying edit: [en.wikipedia.org] i asked Glen two times to explain why he removed parts of the infobox without an explanation; he didnt respond both times. and this part: "far-right, alt-right and fake news", is still there and was never touched by me

" and encounters with him on various political articles extremely unpleasant. " i literally had a total of one encounter with you on my entire time on here. im starting to think you're confusing me with someone. Urgal (talk) 05:03, 23 June 2020 (UTC)


edit: as mentioned earlier, even though i have been registered here for a long time, i am still relatively new in terms of actively editing and am still getting familiarized with the rules and regulations. an indefinite topic ban would be very harsh in my opinion, considering i dont have a history of disruptive editing, and the issues were mainly because of violations of the 1RR rule.Urgal (talk) 15:23, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Statement by Glen

Urgal's claims of "oh I didn't know" or "I forgot in the heat of the moment" are growing tiresome. As pointed out above Urgal was blocked for edit warring on Infowars, then used multiple sockpupppets while blocked which resulted in his block being extended (while claiming he didn't know that was against policy even though he has been editing here for over ten years). Within days of the release of his block he proceeded to attempt to insert the exact same edit on June 22, the same edit that he was trying to insert prior to his blocking back on May 30 and May 31 even though there is clear consensus on the talk page FAQs that Infowars is far-right, alt-right and fake news. His constant edit warring, use of socks to evade blocks and the passive aggressive edit summaries and YELLING result in him being very disruptive to the project and encounters with him on various political articles extremely unpleasant. He is clearly too emotionally invested in these articles to seek consensus or work collaboratively with other editors.Support topic ban Glen 04:04, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Statement by JzG

For what it's worth, I think Urgal's edits display a lack of maturity that is incompatible with the highly charged atmosphere of current politics, and I would advocate at least a 6 month TBAN (past the November election) and I think an indefinite TBAN to be lifted only on appeal after not less than 6 months is defensible, per El C. Guy (help!) 08:01, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Result concerning Urgal

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • If Urgal can't stop themselves from breaking restrictions in the "heat of the moment", then they need a topic ban from post-1932 politics of the United States, and closely related people, in any namespace, to ensure they don't. I suggest three months to see if they can learn how to edit more temperately elsewhere before being allowed back into this controversial area. I'm not impressed by their removal of part of MrX's evidence from this page either. --RexxS (talk) 03:36, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Probably too careless for such a sensitive topic area. And they didn't think it wasn't allowed to modify evidence on this board that concerns themselves?(!) That should have been intuitive. El_C 04:01, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Also, I think 3 months is too lenient. I was thinking indefinite — let them file a proper appeal at some point and let that appeal stand on its own merit. El_C 04:13, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
  • I think we are ready to close with an indefinite AP2 topic ban. Ed, you wanna go ahead? (Or if you prefer, I could do it.) El_C 17:21, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
  • I would do an indefinite topic ban. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 14:47, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Agree with an indefinite topic ban of User:Urgal from WP:ARBAP2 after reading Urgal’s own statement above. They summarize their own edit warring followed by sockpuppetry, plus a removal of part of MrX's comment from the AE. (He believes this removal was OK because “I don’t think it has any relevance”.) EdJohnston (talk) 17:15, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
  • I agree with my colleagues above, and will close in a minute. Bishonen | tålk 17:26, 30 June 2020 (UTC).

Arminden

Arminden and Makeandtoss are both warned to temper their language, focus on content, and generally, conduct themselves with utmost moderation when it comes to this (ARBPIA) topic area. Just because this is a more informal warning does not mean that, next time, sanctions won't be imposed. El_C 15:17, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Arminden

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Makeandtoss (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 10:36, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested
Arminden (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Arminden

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is filed [20]
Sanction or remedy to be enforced
WP:ARBAPDS :
User started a section on the talk page complaining about something in an arbcom article (which is his right) but his statements included numerous inflammatory remarks such as “low IQ propaganda”, “idiotic junk” [21]. I asked him politely to withdraw his statements but he doubled down twice and thrice with [22] accusations that I believe “Jordanian propaganda” and racist statements implying I have bad editing because my country is “undemocratic”. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:46, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
  1. [23]
  2. [24]


Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Such inflammatory remarks and incivility are inappropriate for editing in sensitive arbcom articles.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


Discussion concerning Arminden

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Arminden you are doubling down on your racism by suggesting that human rights violations in Jordan have anything to do with me or this discussion. Any democratic nation has its fair share of state-sponsored propaganda including the US. Every democratic nation also has its fair share of ignorance and of human rights violations. Screening users based on their country is not indicative of constructive wiki editing. I do not have anything to do with what some Jordanians think of Hitler not what some think about atheists (I am an atheist myself). Projecting your generalizations and preconceptions into sourced articles and onto other users is anything but good wiki editing. Makeandtoss (talk) 05:52, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Statement by Arminden

Makeandtoss, I sincerely apologise for upsetting you. I know and appreciate your work.

I have found this article on my phone, where I have no access to its editing history. It baffled and angered me, and I reacted w/o taking into consideration that whatever remark I'll make will be taken personally by somebody. For that I'm sorry and I regret it.

There can be no reason to presume racism as a cause for my comments. None whatsoever. What is then the reason I found the article so unacceptable and upsetting for? I have good personal reasons to deeply hate propaganda, institutional brainwashing and systematic stuffing of people's heads with deeply flawed claims, which have a huge potential of creating and perpetuating conflict and tribal hatred. Is this the case here? There can be no doubt about that.

My colleague M&T felt offended for what he describes as me claiming that "[his] country is “undemocratic”." Please take a look at Democracy Index#Democracy Index by regime type: Jordan scores 3.93 points (North Korea has 1.08 and the maximum is 10). This corresponds to the regime type "authoritarian". It's not me, it's objective analysis that leads to this conclusion. I have spent time in countries anywhere between murderous dictatorship to top-level "full democracy" and I know and truly appreciate the difference. I know Jordan quite well after spending relatively much time there: amazing country, lots of wonderful people, but terribly wanting in terms of political culture and historical awareness. I cannot count how often I've heard the comment "Germany good, Hitler good!" accompanied by bright smiles. Or "atheists and Hindus, who worship cows, are worse than animals and should be killed" (from a local high-rank civil servant). Not to talk of the Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion in Arabic translation on sale all over central Amman. I was witness to policemen beating the hell out of a misbehaving felon held in the arrest cell of a police station in Downtown Amman, while the commanding officer was trying to have with me a polite conversation about the beauty of Petra. After the beating the man, covered in blood flowing from his head, was shackled next to me to the heating pipe next to the floor, forcing him to crouch - while the officer went on with his small talk. That much about democracy. Lots of wonderful people, generous and friendly? No question. Hard-working, proud, with many hard studying youth? Granted! Educated, morally impeccable officials with remarkable manners who helped me on numerous occasions? Absolutely! But widespread democracy and good knowledge of history and civic rights? Please give me a break.

I found the article after receiving a similar document from a concerned German Christian scholar: this is a brand-new White Paper published by the Royal Household. It shows where all this is coming from. A little taste of the content: Canaanites, Amorites, and biblical Hittites are all declared to be Arabs, used as proof for the presence and ownership of Arabs over Urusalim/Jebus/Jerusalem since "at least 2,000 years before the Jews". Quod erat demonstrandum. Never mind that Israelites probably evolved from part of the Canaanites, that no scholar in his right mind will equate any of those ancient peoples with "Arabs", and that such claims have no bearing on today's international law - neither the Jews', nor the Arabs'. This is what stands behind our article at hand. So yes, cheap, junk-level propaganda, over a century behind what is considered academic thought nowadays. Call a spade a spade. No offense intended for anyone except the active, conscious propagandists who know better, but brainwash and manipulate their co-citizens, pouring gas on the fire of tribal hatred (religion and ethnicity are just tools used for this end).

No racism, no offense whatsoever intended for my colleague whom I know well from other work done together and who's edited in absolutely good faith, but every intention to remove ideas and material rooted in baseless propaganda. Arminden (talk) 17:07, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

I totally agree and I will. Matter closed, as far as I'm concerned. Arminden (talk) 17:15, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

@Makeandtoss:, hi. Please, please do read what I wrote w/o taking it as an attack against you, because it is not. Again: I first wrote what I wrote WITHOUT having a clue who's written the article. I did apologise and I'm again apologising for not realising that my comments will offend someone. Most articles are the work of many editors, but this one happens to be almost entirely yours, which makes it so much more likely that you'd take any attack such as mine personally - again, I didn't know this, I didn't think of it, and I should have, for which I again apologise. There is no racism standing behind my critique, just a deep allergy to propaganda: I've been exposed to a huge dose, and I'm sure to have passed on some, unwillingly. You have no fault whatsoever in what's less than perfect in your country. I wrote about my experience there just to answer to what you wrote at some point about democracy being relative or Jordan being as good as any other country: forget my "memoirs" and check that list, on which Jordan scores just 3.93 points out of 10. None of your fault, obviously, but still a fact. My point was: the Hashemite claims, like those from the recent White Paper and the Jordan Times articles you quoted, are maybe wise politically in the Middle East and thank heavens for the even-headedness of the Jordanian kings in more than one historical situation, when they helped diffuse dangerous conflicts, but they must not be measured with the "reality metre" we're using here. I'd much rather have King Abdullah calming down the spirits in Jerusalem than leaving it to the radicals on the ground, and he needs some positioning to be able to do that after 1967 and 1988, but that doesn't mean the White Paper statements are real. And Wikipedia deals in truth, not in wise political positioning. I wish all balanced Middle East arbiters lots of luck, we need all of them; but Wiki is not the press or the UNESCO (see Occupied Palestine Resolution, that piece of political expediency & power play - and nasty crap). Politics and diplomacy are not a good source for truth, and Wikipedia should be. Too many words, sorry. Take care, Arminden (talk) 22:50, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

@Huldra:, hi. This starts looking like a Kafka novel. I did one thing only: I looked up in the respective "editing history" pages, including on the talk-page, who's been involved in the topic and has made some contributions in the past, made a cursory attempt to ensure they seemed to represent both bloody "camps" (why we need to have "camps" on Wiki is another issue), pinged them all, and tried to get on with my life. Didn't spend on it half the time it takes me to write this. The article is almost invisible, and I wanted to have people join the discussion (there's hardly anyone taking note of this arbitration as it is, as you can easily notice). It never occurred to me they'd be blocked, blacklisted or whatever. I swear. I didn't know of any of them what "police file" they have at Wiki, not did it cross my mind to check. I'd much rather use the time to do research and add good, reliable info to articles - or, imagine my cheekyness, go and live offline now and then, rather than do background tests. I have no intention of offending you, I sometimes have a more colourful way of expressing myself, I just want to say: I won't study everyone's past, I won't study "Wikipedia Law", and I'll try to use my best judgement, common sense and sense of decency when I'm doing something here, with best intentions, which obviously won't be enough, but that's life. Thank you for offering me more credit than I deserve in this regard. I wish you a great weekend and I sincerely apologise if I offended or disappointed you, Arminden (talk) 23:19, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Statement by Huldra

Seriously, Armiden; I had expected better of you that pinging NoCal100-socks, or blocked users, or topic-banned users, like you did, here and here. Please don't do that again, Huldra (talk) 20:58, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Arminen: I am not offended, I just think you were a bit..sloppy. (Which is not a good thing in the IP area. Sloppyness leads to time-waists and a LOT of words)).
I think El_C is right: you both need to chill, (But Armiden; you started it, you brought the temperate up, by your...hmf, undiplomatic language on the talk-page: please don't repeat that), Huldra (talk) 23:59, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Arminden

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • I think you both need to chill. Go edit something else for a while, leaving the dispute to other editors. Espousing vitriol is not helpful, from either one of you, but I'm not sure the two diffs (linked twice for some reasons — but, no, there's only 2, not 4) show anything that is actionable at this time. El_C 11:00, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Unless another admin opines otherwise, I am ready to close this with a warning to both users to take more care when editing topics falling under the DS regime. As is customary, I'll give it about a day. I note that the page in question has not been edited since this report was filed, so my advise was heeded, which is good. I see no need to note the warnings in the log. But while these remain somewhat informal, please take note nonetheless. El_C 17:16, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
  • I concur with El C, but I worry that when strong national feelings are involved, it is difficult for editors involved to edit dispassionately. I think both editors here must realise that further flare-ups are much more likely to be met with strong action. --RexxS (talk) 18:30, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
  • I think we need a pair of informal warnings and some side eye --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 14:31, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Selfstudier

For having violated 1RR

Selfstudier is formally warned to better observe the restrictions of the topic area (ARBPIA). The warning has been logged. El_C 23:35, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Selfstudier

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Shrike (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 14:33, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested
Selfstudier (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel_articles#ARBPIA_General_Sanctions :
Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. 12:48, 29 June 2020 1 Revert partial rv to this version [25]
  2. 11:12, 30 June 2020 2nd revert
  3. Date Explanation
  4. Date Explanation
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
  1. Date Explanation
  2. Date Explanation
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
  • Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date.


Additional comments by editor filing complaint

In both reverts he removed words "It was annexed by Jordan in 1950".I have proposed the user to self revert yet he refused [26] by claiming that he entitled because some RFC but its not one of the exceptions given by ARBCOM to break 1RR *@RexxS: Actually if you read the RFC Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration#RFC:_West_Bank_village_articles decision it says "2) In cases involving the Jordanian annexation, the wording came under Jordanian rule following the 1948-1949 Arab-Israel War and was later, in a move not widely recognized internationally, annexed by Jordan in 1950 enjoys widespread support" by removing the text he goes against the RFC decision moreover the decision doesn't require any enforcing of it. --Shrike (talk) 19:34, 30 June 2020 (UTC) striken probably I misread the decision --Shrike (talk) 20:23, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


Discussion concerning Selfstudier

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Selfstudier

My latest edit is constructive, not a revert. I removed an easter egg and the consequent repetition, that's all. The repeated material was added recently by Zarcademan12345 (topic banned) with a request not to revert pending the outcome of an RFC. Said RFC is now concluded and not only does not support the addition of the material but also recommends removal of easter eggs such as the one I removed.Selfstudier (talk) 14:59, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

@El C: I am not going to argue with an admin about this so have self reverted.Selfstudier (talk) 17:28, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
I removed the easter egg as indicated by the rfc, specifically about this issue. I could just have stopped there and then presumably I would not be falling foul of the rules and the article would then have read as follows: " Aqraba came under Jordanian annexation of the West Bank. It was annexed by Jordan in 1950." I did not really regard the removal of the duplication as anything out of the ordinary but if that is what it has to be, so be it. I was not edit warring, it was intended as a constructive edit.Selfstudier (talk) 19:14, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
By "edit warring" I meant the bright line 3/4 revert thing not the 1R IP thing, which I do take seriously, I just didn't think that what I did was a breach of that, which is how we have ended up here. Now I know differently. I will try to hold my breath from now on. As you have seen, the "annexation" bit got mixed up with the other reverting that was going on and in which I had no interest as such.Selfstudier (talk) 22:02, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
As an aside (for Huldra, mainly) the annexation thing is quite complicated (there are several relevant discussions presently ongoing about it in different places it is not only the closed RFC already referred to) but the current title came in 2017 and has survived multiple attempts to change it to anything that includes "occupation" (directly or indirectly).Selfstudier (talk) 22:11, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Statement by Nableezy

I just have to object to "that local RFC". RFCs at a centralized discussion closed by an uninvolved admin should have some force here, and if an editor is ignoring that explicit consensus, whatever that consensus may be, that editor should be reverted and sanctioned for disruptive and tendentious editing. That too is prohibited by the arbitration decision, and I would have thought been taken much more seriously than a 1RR violation (though yes that happened here and yes Selfstudier should have self-reverted when first asked). nableezy - 19:44, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

How is that not a centralized location? RFCs at IPCOLL have been the basis of, for example, naming conventions that were created under arbitration decisions. That is the centralized location for discussions in the topic area for changes that affect a range of articles. Its been treated that way for over a decade now by all sides. If RFCs at the WikiProject specifically established as a central discussion location for editors of all viewpoints that are closed by an uninvolved admin dont have any effect then what is the point of any of this? RFCs at IPCOLL have had some sort of force for literally ten years. nableezy - 22:07, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
And to be very clear, I am not saying that edit-warring is the method of enforcement of that RFC, but if an editor is editing against its consensus they should be reported and sanctioned. nableezy - 22:11, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Statement by Huldra

Sorry, but count me as confused.

To re-iterate from my talk-page; any link directly to Jordanian annexation of the West Bank is in itself a sort of Easter-link, as that article contains two parts: the occupation phase (1948-1950) and the annexation phase (1950-67). If you link straight to Jordanian annexation of the West Bank ..then you leave out the occupation part.

The article Jordanian annexation of the West Bank recently changed name from Jordanian occupation of the West Bank to Jordanian annexation of the West Bank (and if you look at its talk-page: the title is continuously being discussed.)

My solution has been to "pipe" [[Jordanian annexation of the West Bank|Jordanian rule]], as "rule" encompass both "occupation" and "annexation".

If that is not acceptable, then please tell me what wording is acceptable?

I think we need a fixed "standard phrase" wrt to these (hundreds of) West Bank villages, we haven't got that at the moment (at least not that I am aware of!) Huldra (talk) 22:02, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Btw: when I did my revert here: that was a "whole-sale" revert: mostly I was upset that the (wholly uncontroversial) 1961 info was taken out, also that the 2014 was taken out (only Shrike was for taking out that, while 3 editors (+User:Rabobux) were for keeping it.) I inadvertently re-introduced a sentence (which Selfstudier later removed). I actually agreed with Selfstudier's edit, and if I hadn't been in such a hurry to reintroduce the 1961 +2014 info, then I would have done it myself. Mea Culpa ...:( Huldra (talk) 22:29, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
I totally agree with RexxS that the "proper" procedure for Selfstudier was to have asked me to fix the "Jordanian era" info: which I would have done immediately. Again, sorry for my mistake, Huldra (talk) 22:41, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Selfstudier

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • This is not a complicated report: Selfstudier reverted twice in 24 hours, having removed [i]t was annexed by Jordan in 1950 both times. They were given the opportunity to self-revert as is customary, but refused, preferring instead to have these edits examined here at AE. And so, here we are. I, for one, find their explanation to be insufficient and I recommend sanctions, which I am ready to impose sooner rather than later. El_C 17:04, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
    • Selfstudier, you should not need an admin and an AE report for you to observe the rules. I am leaning toward a (logged) warning to drive that point across. El_C 18:11, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
      • RexxS, no objection to sanctions, either. If that is the consensus, I am willing to support that, too. Or a logged warning. Whichever. El_C 18:26, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
        • RexxS, thanks for magnifying. I agree that Selfstudier doesn't seem to be taking the discretionary sanctions seriously with that inexplicable "I was not edit warring" line. Sanctions it is, then. El_C 21:07, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
          • @El C: Can you wait a little longer, please? There has been some intractable posturing here by several parties. It's beginning to look like a "GOTCHA" by the OP, following a revert against the RfC consensus by Huldra - see my talk page and User talk:Huldra. If we're not getting any cooperation from either side of this dispute, it might be time to start handing out sanctions more broadly. --RexxS (talk) 21:40, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
            • For sure, I'm in no rush to act. El_C 21:42, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
              • RexxS, do you have a sanction or set of sanctions in mind? A week partial block to Selfstudier would represent my default for someone with an otherwise clear record. El_C 23:08, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
                • @El C: The to-and-fro has calmed down, and Selfstudier has displayed clear self-reflection above, so I'm less worried about the likelihood of future transgressions. Given Huldra's explanation of her mistake and honest acceptance of part of the blame, I now wonder if a logged warning for Selfstudier wouldn't be just as effective? Anyway, I'll go along with whatever you decide as I think we're very close to agreement. --RexxS (talk) 23:22, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
                  • Logged warning works for me. Closing with that. El_C 23:35, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Editors working in articles subject to discretionary sanctions should familiarise themselves with the restrictions applying to the article. It's not acceptable to refuse to self-revert a clear breach until forced to by a complaint to AE. I support sanctions in this case, otherwise what incentive is there for others to edit within the limits imposed by the sanctions? --RexxS (talk) 18:23, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
    • @El C: I've just spent some more time examining the contributions made by Selfstudier (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log). It seems they have placed far too much emphasis on the results of Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration #RFC: West Bank village articles, and not sufficiently understood the overriding requirement of AC/DS to avoid edit-warring. Attempting to enforce the consensus of that local RfC cannot be achieved by edit-warring, only by legitimate dispute resolution. If they can understand and accept that, then a warning will be sufficient; otherwise I'm afraid a topic ban will be necessary. --RexxS (talk) 18:56, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
    • @Selfstudier: In response to my statement above, you state "I was not edit warring", but you were. You've convinced me that you don't take the discretionary sanctions seriously. --RexxS (talk) 20:19, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
    • @Shrike: Please don't be disingenuous. You know very well that both of can read S Marshall's close on 17 June 2020: "1. It is not normal Wikipedian practice to include easter-egg links from relatively bland phrases like "Came under Jordanian rule" to our nuanced articles Jordanian annexation of the West Bank ... There is scope for editors to correct instances of this." That is exactly the link/text that Selfstudier objected to in their edits and it carries with it the consensus of that RfC. Huldra later restored the "easter-egg" link and text against the RfC consensus. That was the edit that triggered Selfstudier's revert against DS. But you are absolutely wrong to claim that "by removing the text he goes against the RFC decision". It seems to me that you are offering false evidence here and you should strike that claim. --RexxS (talk) 20:19, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
    • @Nableezy: It was a local RfC per WP:CONLOCAL, despite your protests. Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration is not a centralised location, and decisions of Wikiprojects do not take precedence over project-wide processes such as WP:AC/DS: "unless they can convince the broader community that such action is right, participants in a WikiProject cannot decide that some generally accepted policy or guideline does not apply to articles within its scope." Nevertheless, I have just asked Huldra to reverse their re-insertion of the easter-egg link. That would have been the correct course of action by Selfstudier. It would be only after a polite attempt to get them to abide by the consensus that it would be appropriate to escalate the dispute resolution, and it was never appropriate to attempt to resolve it by edit-warring. --RexxS (talk) 21:02, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Roxy the dog

Not actionable --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 02:47, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Roxy the dog

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Ivanvector (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 20:23, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested
Roxy the dog (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. Special:Diff/965678372 - uncivil commentary in edit request ("Rotten thing to do")
  2. Special:Diff/965680173 - personal attack described below
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
  1. WP:AELOG/2018#Pseudoscience - Roxy the dog blocked for one week for edit warring on the same article.
    Sanction was overturned on appeal.
  • There are many more blocks for personal attacks and edit warring in Roxy the dog's block log, but none are marked as arbitration enforcement.
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I protected this article earlier today in response to a request at RFPP regarding many established editors reverting a description of the topic as pseudoscience, in the midst of an active discussion about the same. No editors were named in that request, but at least nine had edited the material in dispute since the previous day. I chose to protect the page indefinitely, with advice that protection would be lifted immediately following either a resolution of the conflict in the form of an edit request, or consensus among involved editors that protection should be restored to the previous semiprotection for whatever reason they decided was appropriate. This mirrors a similar action on that article by former administrator John (nopinged because his user page says he's retired) several years ago.

In response to my notice on the article's talk page, Roxy the dog suggested I should reconsider protection immediately, to which I responded by repeating my second condition for lifting protection (simple consensus). Roxy's response to that was to call me "stupid", to say that I "can't count" (I'm not sure what they're referring to, my action is not based on counting anything, though Roxy may be referring to my user page indicating that I am an accountant), and a direct suggestion that I am incompetent to perform administrative duties. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:23, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Roxy the dog

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Roxy the dog

Statement by Kingofaces43

Not involved in the subject, but dealing with pseudoscience topics in general, I took a look at what was going on at the page. Roxy's comments look like valid fairly civil frustration at the actions due to wider underlying issues going on there.

However, having that civility restriction without enforcing the rest of WP:ARBPS is just asking for trouble with good editors getting frustrated by advocacy, in this case, those trying to get the word pseudoscience removed or watered down. That's already a WP:PSCI policy violation, and the original ARBPS case goes into more detail that we're supposed to call pseudoscience as it is. If someone is trying to claim this subject isn't pseudoscience, it's probably better in terms of WP:PREVENTATIVE to have a lower bar for removing that editor violating PSCI from the topic rather than masking the problem with edit warring and other civility restrictions. Otherwise, you're inevitably going to get burnout from editors trying to both tread carefully and deal with disruptive advocacy, edit warring, etc. by others.

I won't go so far as to say Ivanvector was out of line with the restrictions they did put in place. However, more care should have probably gone into dealing with the behavior issues related to PSCI before or as part of protecting the page and telling everyone to get consensus since PSCI behavior issues tend to disrupt talk discussions. Tough to do on the fly I know, but good pseudoscience enforcement requires some time to look at advocacy issues.

That said, there is also the DS-enforced RFC route (i.e., WP:GMORFC). I wouldn't suggest a locked in language RfC like that one was, but maybe just the question "Is ayurveda pseudoscience?" Basically, something that can apply to the whole subject indicating it can be called such in Wikipedia's WP:VOICE. Kingofaces43 (talk) 21:57, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Statement by JzG

Do people have nothing better to do? This is so far below actionable that it's not even funny. Guy (help!) 00:17, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Roxy the dog

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • I see the offending comment as RtD calling the action stupid, not you. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 20:46, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Not actionable. There has to be some leeway for editors to express frustration about admin actions. El_C 01:13, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
  • I would not classify this as actionable. The second diff is not what I would call an ideal mode of communication, but viewed in context it is within the permissible range of venting. Neutralitytalk 02:04, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
  • I am always very hesitant to sanction an editor for objecting to an admin action, unless they're way out of line in it rather than just expressing frustration. While the comments weren't ideal, I would not impose sanctions for them. Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:27, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

USaamo

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning USaamo

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Aman.kumar.goel (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 05:45, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested
USaamo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:ARBIPA :
Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. 7 June - Violates WP:NPA and WP:ASPERSIONS by incorrectly accusing established editors of being sock/meat of each other: "I see the finding was WP:DUCK. I started an RfC there to get views over the matter from uninvolved and neutral editors but I see it was also flooded with comments opposing it by the same involved editors who actually indulged in this edit dispute with me except one or two. Same like that case WP:DUCK#Usage WP:MEATPUPPET."
  2. 9 June - "don't like it owing to their ultra-nationalist sentiments. Consensus is also not canvassing or meatpuppetry"
  3. 2 July - Violates WP:NPA and WP:ASPERSIONS again: "meat puppetry was done to influence the RfC in democratic style which is against Wikipedia policies. Anyhow RfC is not a binding thing, I seek other way of dispute resolution in this regard."
  4. 2 June - Misrepresents sources by claiming that the subject "became the face of Kashmir independence movement and was widely compared with Bhagat Singh" and used the sources,[28][29][30] when none of them talks about any "independence" or a "movement".
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
Blocked on 9 June 2020 for edit warring on Indo-Pakistani Air War of 1965, where he was just edit warring to enforce his own WP:OR as his one of the edit undoubtedly indicates.[31]
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
[32]
Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[33]


Discussion concerning USaamo

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by USaamo

The whole point of conflict is the edit dispute on Indo-Pakistani Air War of 1965 which the editor called original research. Why ain’t it be determined, I’ve presented sources [34], he's refuting them [35], why not someone decide on that and end this dispute once and for all. As to my conduct, I’m being dragged into all this. I didn’t mean it and is unintentional out of frustration since I’m not much experienced editor knowing just some necessary editing policies only.

  • The 1st and 3rd point where I alleged them to be meatpuppets, if you see the full comment [36], I said canvassing in either way meatpuppetry. My point on both the instances was not specifically directed but in general sense as I observed them all editing on pages concerning India Pakistan Military history pushing Indian POV. The same I saw on Indo-Pakistani Air War of 1965 page that they came one after one reverting my edit [37] most lately User:Trojanishere and when I started RfC [38], they came one after one commenting against it even being involved previously in the dispute and then pushing it as consensus to not include that. This was the point for which I alleged them for canvassing and meatpuppetry in some way. I don’t think it is that much personal attack since editors here even open investigations against other editors for sockpuppetry where they don’t come out to be a sock.
  • As to the 2nd point it’s subsequent to the 1st and 3rd points which I answered above that one after one they were appearing and reverting my edit while discussion was ongoing and trying to push the consensus formed by their own votes, so I said that generally in edit summary.
  • The 4th point is just the choice of words, the sources are mentioning it as Kashmir unrest, Kashmir militancy, Kashmir agitation, Kashmir problem which is part of Kashmir conflict to which the Kashmir independence movement is a redirect [39]. It’s the choice of a neutral words since it’s obvious that Indian media will mention it as militancy as per their government narrative while for Kashmiris and Pakistanis it is freedom struggle, any other neutral word if there can also be used but Burhan Wani definitely took up arms for Kashmir independence movement as per the article.

I was blocked for this edit dispute over edit warring for reason that they were stonewalling my edits, my changes were being reverted one after one by four of the editors involved in edit dispute and I was reverting their reverts, so the editor went on to get me blocked even though the edit reversion was started by them and I reverted them as many times they reverted me or even less but I came into admin’s radar somehow and got blocked. Now the said editor came here with some loopholes in my conduct but in all this edit dispute why only my conduct is being scrutinized, why not theirs, WP:Stonewalling, WP:DISRUPT, WP:EDITWAR, WP:CANVAS, and may be WP:MEATPUPPET as well. USaamo ([email protected]) 21:26, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

(Update) Requesting administrator to allow this update, it may exceeds word limit of statement. (Continues from 1st and 2nd points of my statement...) User:Aman.kumar.goel himself falsely accused other editors of sockpuppetry at many instances. [40] [41] [42] [43] while a filing is also there against him where clerk endorsed him for sockpuppetry as well as off-wiki canvassing and meatpuppetry.[44] So he should also be tried for WP:NPA and WP:ASPERSIONS for falsely accusing other editors of sockpuppetry and also for WP:MEATPUPPET, WP:DUCK#Usage, WP:CANVAS as well as WP:EDITWAR, WP:DISRUPT, WP:Stonewalling.

USaamo ([email protected]) 12:07, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning USaamo

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • Seems actionable. Yes, USaamo needs to take it down a notch. They cannot be interacting with other editors in this manner. That is not conducive to a collegial, collaborative volunteer project. At the very least, there will be a logged warning. And otherwise, sanctions are on the table pending further investigation. El_C 08:10, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
  • Concur with El C. The comments above are needlessly incendiary. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 03:04, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

YuukiHirohiko

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Request concerning YuukiHirohiko

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Aman.kumar.goel (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 10:34, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested
YuukiHirohiko (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
WP:ARBIPA.
Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
  1. Violates WP:1RR on 1 July: 1) makes a few edits failing WP:OR, WP:RS,[45] 2) then reinstates the problematic edit without edit summary,[46] 3) then doubles down with the problematic edits once again.[47]
  2. Claims he will use "scholarly sources",[48] and resorts to using same unreliable sources again while claiming on edit summary that "Scholarly sources added, new details on strength and units."
  3. 4 July Falsely alleges editor of being biased: "Please do not carry your own bias into this."
  4. 5 July: Gaming WP:1RR by reinstating his edits,[49] then restoring them after being reverted.[50]
  5. 5 July: Alleges me of vandalism contrary to WP:NOTVAND.[51]
  6. 5 July: Refuses to self-revert and falsely claims that "Indian government sources" are being used on article.[52] Upon seeing rejection of such problematic view, still doubles down with his use of Chinese mouthpieces.[53]

He is aware of what constitutes "vandalism" per this message written by him so I am confident that his reference to my edits as vandalism was deliberate.

A report on WP:ANEW against this user with regards to edit warring on 2020 China–India skirmishes is still located on the noticeboard (Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Edit warring#User:YuukiHirohiko reported by User:MarkH21 (Result: ))Aman Kumar Goel (Talk) 10:34, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
[54]
Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
[55]


Discussion concerning YuukiHirohiko

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Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by YuukiHirohiko

Logically speaking a page would use as many sources as possible. I have read the Japanese, Chinese wiki pages of the same incident. Both voices are heard, Indian figures and Chinese sources are given on all other language pages respectively. Attempts to do the same on the English site were either reverted without reasoning or deleted on the claim of "using communist mouthpiece".

I have not removed the Indian scholarly sources stated in the talk section nor have I moved it. It remains in its original section and I just added my sources.

It's more than unusual to use Indian government sources as an official casualty figure of the standing article, more unusual that the objection that I face of doing the same thing for the Chinese side. Indian government statements are well known to be inaccurate and sometimes self contradictory.[1][2][3]

So proclaimed "scholarly sources" in the article, backing up Indian government claims, are all written by one person, a professor at an Indian university, which according to the talk section sourced his death figures from "Bidanda Chengappa, working for an Indian think tank". I'd like to question the NPOV of this scholarly source.

And

"On Wikipedia, vandalism is editing the project in a malicious manner that is intentionally disruptive. Vandalism includes any addition, removal, or modification that is humorous, nonsensical, a hoax, or otherwise degrading."

I see you removing my edits as vandalism as I was given 0 prior warning, 0 indication. You didn't show positive willingness to discuss this, I laid out my logic in my talk page regarding how China still has Cho La in its LAC despite the article stating the opposite, you didn't reply or rebut with solid evidence. YuukiHirohiko (talk) 10:52, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

References

Statement by (username)

Result concerning YuukiHirohiko

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • I cannot tell if YuukiHirohiko's sources are reliable and if they cite government sources. The status of this or that source which is not in English should have been discussed, and resolution arrived in that respect, on the article talk page first — before making key changes to the article based on these. YuukiHirohiko seems to be a new user who is currently SPAing. I'd be willing to go with, say, a week partial block from the article, or even just a warning, if they commit to the needed correction, which includes reading what vandalism is not. Very important. El_C 16:38, 7 July 2020 (UTC)