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User talk:HLHJ

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Oceanography maps

As far as I know, the only way to call attention to a color-confusing map is to go to WP:GL or ask someone privately on a user talk page; I've never done anything else. I see nothing at Commons:Category:Image cleanup templates that mentions color. Meanwhile, did you see my note at WP:GL? I'm not sure what image I should be evaluating. Nyttend (talk) 19:18, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Forgot to reply on the template. I'd advise against it, simply because this is the kind of thing that belongs on Commons, not on en:wp. I don't know if there's a requested-templates page over there. Nyttend (talk) 21:43, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

It's Sandister!

Hello. We met at Open Scholarship Weekend. sandioosesTextMe 18:43, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Citrus diagram

I left a comment on your request for a citrus family tree at the Graphics Lab. I'd be interested to hear your response. NikNaks talk - gallery 15:52, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

External links section

Per the WP:MEDMOS external links typically go after the reference section. Thus moved back some of the changes in this edit [1] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:54, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

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DiptanshuTalk 10:24, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Citrus cladogram

Hi, where are you getting the information from for the cladogram that you added at a number of pages, including Citrus gracilis? I can't see it at the cited source. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 17:36, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@Sminthopsis84: Thanks for being so polite! I made the cladogram ages ago, for Australian limes. I don't really recall, but I think the source was the section titled "The citrus types previously known as Microcitrus>History" (which is a better title than Australian limes, sort of...). It's not in a very digestible form. Do you also read it as I did? HLHJ (talk) 20:44, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
And maybe the cladogram doesn't belong in Citrus gracilis or Citrus wintersii, since they aren't in the tree. HLHJ (talk) 21:02, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Oh, I see where you got that from. It sounds as if it might be based on morphology only. Actually, I think that cladogram could be out of date because Clymenia (plant) apparently belongs in there somewhere, but I don't have access to this article. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:48, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
I think I have a copy of that Garcia-Lor thesis somewhere, I'll have a look. The cladogram is missing several other species, too, so if it's missing clymenia, it's missing it. You could contact the source author, I guess, and ask for an extension of their summary, to cover more species.
Morphology may be the best we can do. I got the impression it was an expert's educated guess on available data, better than which we cannot do. Citrus taxonomy is a mess. I mean, the entire genus interbreeds freely, unless geography or seasons separate them, and so many people (including Garcia-Lor, as I recall) have come up with rather different trees depending on which sections of genome they chose to work with, and which representatives of each genetic area. The genetic cluster analysis at Citrus_taxonomy#Genetic_history starts looking good.
I've tried sorting the pure varieties from the hybrids at, e.g. Mandarin_orange#Varieties, and I recommend the references in there; Next generation haplotyping to decipher nuclear genomic interspecific admixture in Citrusspecies: analysis of chromosome 2 and Sequencing of diverse mandarin, pummelo and orange genomes reveals complex history of admixture during citrus domestication are both open access, although sadly Assessing genetic diversity and population structure in a citrus germplasm collection utilizing simple sequence repeat markers (SSRs) isn't, and it covers far more species. The supplementary info, which is open-source, ends with a four-page-long genetic tree, have fun. The actual paper has more useful info on admixtures.
It's a pity, because there are two groups of people with a strong interest in Citrus taxonomy; Orthodox Jews and people taking medicines that interact with some citrus.
These trees are sort of useless, really. The assumptions about speciation that are implicitly made in the computer algorithm don't hold. Even for simple this-is-a-hybrid-of-that stuff, papers contradict one another because they picked different sequences and even unknowingly picked hybrids as reference species. There simply isn't enough data, with just two full genomes. Nonetheless, given that humans understand complex stuff by chunking, I think cladograms have some use in giving a quick visual this-is-more-like-that-than-THAT. I tried to work with some others to make a diagram of the major hybridizations a while back, can't find the discussions now. HLHJ (talk) 23:06, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Indeed, cladistic reconstruction of hybrid networks has been a disaster area for many years, and requires a huge research investment. A couple of rules of thumb that I think would be appropriate are (1) that work on the species that are outside that knot of human-influenced hybrids could be useful (as the Acta Horticulturae article seems to be) and (2) that recent work may well be sorting out problems demonstrated by the older work. Perhaps eventually there'll be a review article that sorts it all out. I'm glad you are working on the wikipedia Citrus articles because they have been very bad indeed. P.S.: I sent you email. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 12:42, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

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Kugal fountain

Googling...

Me thinks another name is probably in order. Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 09:51, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

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Kite rig article

Thank you for starting a new article on kite rigs, HLHJ. This has possibilities. For the time being, I removed the section on kite rigs from the Sail article, which didn't link to your new article, but to a segment of an article on kites, because I felt that it was out of scope. However, as you develop this article, I highly recommend your coming back to the Talk:Sail page and discuss its potential inclusion in the scope, there. Keep up the good work. I may lend a hand at Kite rig, as well. Cheers, User:HopsonRoad 11:31, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, User:HopsonRoad, for your work on the article I created, if definitely needs it. I wrote the article in response to having to put that link to the cargo segment of the kite applications article, and then I forgot to rewrite the link; apologies. I wrote the section because I found myself asking "Is a kite a square or a fore-and-aft rig?" and answering "No, not really". Kiteboating, which I didn't create, could also use work, if you are interested. HLHJ (talk) 15:06, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
FYI, HLHJ, John Konrad appears not to have ever been a US employee. He is a well-published author, however. See:http://gcaptain.com/about/. Cheers, User:HopsonRoad 00:00, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

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A page you started (Acharagma aguirreanum) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Acharagma aguirreanum, HLHJ!

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Coconut sugar and neera

Hello HLHJ. On my talk page, you said: "Quick query about this edit; do you think that the term is incorrect? I got the information from the neera article, which I linked to, assuming that anyone interested would follow it. Thank you for using the term "good-faith" in your revert, it made it sting a bit less. Please, if you think an edit is useful but unsourced, could you source it rather than deleting it? It's so much less emotionally unpleasant for editors, and helps keep us writing. Here is a source which you could insert."

First, coconut sugar and neera are not the same products: "Neera is the sweet, oyster white-coloured sap tapped from the immature inflorescence of coconut" (from your source). Second, you used this reference on the Neera page to support the use of neera for diabetics. That site is not a reliable, expert source. In fact, it is spam. Please review WP:MEDRS for citing statements about nutrition and disease. Third, there's nothing wrong with you inserting a solid WP:SECONDARY source for a statement on the manufacturing of neera; you could have added it when you edit this. Thanks. --Zefr (talk) 01:50, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
I'll answer you here and ping you, Zefr, to avoid copying. You are quite right that coconut sugar and neera are not the same thing. For starters, neera can come from multiple palms, not just coconut. Pasturized neera, which is brown, is still called neera, although apparently pasturized coconut neera is also called coconut nectar. Evaporated coconut neera is coconut sugar, as I understand it; please correct me if this is wrong. I mentioned coconut sugar in the neera article only in order to mention a cultural reason for an interest in coconut neera rather than coconut sugar. I'd noticed "coconut nectar" suddenly popping up in ingredients lists of U.S. food, which was how I came to look it up.
I hadn't thought of what I added as a medref. I should have. That coconut sugar has a low glycemic index and has therefore become a fad seemed a fairly uncontroversial claim, but it seems that it's a bit more complicated than that. There is a popular newspaper article linking to a number of studies here:[1]. In summary, the newspaper article (not the papers linked to in it) seems to say that the inulin may be good for your blood sugar, but the fructose is bad for your liver, and the lower glycemic index is just a consequence of more fructose and less sucrose and glucose, as the index measures glucose only. Obviously a lot of nuanced medical information should be added to the coconut sugar article, especially as the stuff is a fad and the article will see a lot of use. Do you know anyone who might have appropriate expertise?
Thank you for removing the promotional language from the neera article. HLHJ (talk) 03:01, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
Zefr, if we are now sure that the sap from which coconut sugar is made is correctly called neera, could you please restore this information to the coconut sugar article and add a reference as per WP:PRESERVE? I'll try to get around to adding something on medical claims to the coconut sugar article; they are common and a likely reason for people to read the article. If you find any good refs please let me know. HLHJ (talk) 04:03, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
I'm not aware of a good secondary source defining that coconut sugar is made from neera. Until we have that, we shouldn't insert unsourced text. I'm also certain you won't find any WP:MEDRS source stating that coconut sugar is healthier than any other sweetener or that it provides health benefits. Where good sources are absent, the general medical policy is to not insert unreferenced or spam referenced content. --Zefr (talk) 04:38, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
Zefr, there are good sources saying that neera is the sap of the inflorescences of toddy palms, and that toddy palms include the coconut, and that coconut sugar is made from the sap of the inflorescences of coconut palms. The "The Hindu" article[2] I pointed you to contains this sentence:

Neera is the sweet, oyster white-coloured sap tapped from the immature inflorescence of coconut.

The Globe and Mail article[3] says that

Coconut sugar is made from the sap of flower buds from the coconut palm tree.

Combined with a knowledge of what "inflorescence" means, it seems to me that this adequately sources the uncontroversial statement that coconut sugar is made from neera. It would have been easy for you to fix this, or add a citation needed tag so that I could do so.
It remains an unsourced issue. We appear to have no good secondary source on manufacturing that clearly connects neera to coconut sugar. If a statement is made connecting them without a good source, then that is WP:SYNTH. --Zefr (talk)
First sentence of this article seems reliable to me, so I hope you will agree and add it. If the source does not satisfy you, please WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM and find one that does. Please find citations for any other statements you find are insufficiently sourced, or tag them with "citation needed". HLHJ (talk) 17:37, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
What do you think, Zefr? Sorry, forgot to ping. HLHJ (talk) 21:50, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
Zefr? HLHJ (talk) 04:13, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I don't think we should use that source. The article is so poorly written that one might conclude it was never reviewed by an editor who speaks English. A quality editor and journal staff would not have allowed that article to be published. The journal has a low impact factor, 1.4, that is below the threshold for a WP reliable source. It's not a good source to provide to the public as evidence. Is it really important that the article says "coconut sugar is made from neera"? The current article description about sap being boiled into the toddy seems fine with me, although I'd like to see a better manufacturing source. --Zefr (talk) 04:50, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Hello,Zefr. I agree that the article isn't brilliant, although a lot of the research literature is written by non-native English speakers. On the other hand it's clearly a source close to the industry, and I don't think it's likely to be wrong on this particular factoid, especially as it is corroborated by multiple other such sources. I am more certain that neera is made into coconut sugar than I am of many of the other uncited facts in the article. But try this article. It gives a source for the term toddy, too.
Alright, I think that ref is adequate, so have added it here. --Zefr (talk) 16:52, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
I think it is important that Wikipedia not wall off knowledge from non-Western cultures, and that means translating terms, even when it's hard to find a source or it harms price discrimination. "Neera" is a term used in Indian English, which is a really common world dialect. HLHJ (talk) 05:02, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
I am not interested in stating that coconut sugar is healthier than any other sweetener or that it provides health benefits, because I do not believe that there is evidence that this is true. I was thinking something more like this, but with better medrefs:
While assorted health claims have been made for coconut sugar, clinical evidence is lacking. There is evidence that specific components of coconut sugar are harmful in excess.[4][3]
This Huff Post article is a poorly-written, uneducated blog by a non-expert. It does not meet the standards of WP:RS and shouldn't be used, WP:NOTBLOG. --Zefr (talk)
As I implied, I know that this is an inadequate source. Can you find a better one? Sadly, people rarely write medical reviews of lack of evidence. I've posted to Project Medicine about this problem. HLHJ (talk) 17:37, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
"Sadly, people rarely write medical reviews of lack of evidence.": good science is written on a foundation of established facts or near-facts. If there's an absence of evidence, then it's unlikely a review would be written. I saw your post on WT:MED and feel it's reasonable for WP editors to say "As of January 2017, no good clinical evidence for this claim has been published". This is equal to saying, "as of 2017, there is no evidence of life on Mars." Where one can find "evidence of absence" for medical literature and commercial products is in FDA warning letters which point out the absence of evidence for health benefits. For example, if you Google "FDA warning letter coconut", you'll see numerous examples where companies with coconut products have violated FDA law for marketing of dietary supplements. This is good reading and instruction on what should be common sense in food, supplement and drug products, but many companies ignore this. --Zefr (talk) 18:45, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
That's a great idea with warning letters; ones from other regulators, like the EU, would also be useful sources. I did find a FDA warning letter on coconut water, and a specific one on diabetes claims for coconut oil, but nothing on coconut sugar. Can you find such a source?
I've also heard it said that science is clearly defining areas of doubt and uncertainty, which is probably why scientific papers often discuss what isn't known. HLHJ (talk) 21:50, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
I never wished to "support the use of neera for diabetics". I wished to add information on why it is a fad for diabetics (no good reason, in my assessment, but if that statement[/assesment] can be supported with medrefs it belongs in the article).
There is no good WP:MEDRS source that neera is used for diabetics. This is just noise among a limited segment of consumers, and we should not be spreading news on fads. No information in the article is evidence to encyclopedia users that that topic carries no weight, WP:UNDUE. --Zefr (talk)
I would be delighted if the absence of information on a topic in Wikipedia could be taken to imply that no such information existed, but I fear this is not yet the case. Enough sources have written about the coconut-sugar health fad to establish notability. Wikipedia has a list of conspiracy theories, including ones such as "the world is controlled by blood-drinking, shape-shifting alien reptiles", and articles about topics such as homeopathy, so I think providing information about notable false health claims is in-scope for the encyclopedia. We just need to find decent medical sources. Can you suggest any? HLHJ (talk) 17:37, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I've looked and found no WP:RS sources useable to state that purported health effects of coconut sugar have been scientifically evaluated. WP:SPAM sources like Dr. Oz or Mercola have to be kept off of WP. Further, sources you introduced, like this and this, have no place in a trusted encyclopedia because there is probability they will be misinterpreted as fact by non-scientific users. You said: "Enough sources have written about the coconut-sugar health fad to establish notability." I would say that the topic is not notable scientifically, but has been reported as a consumer trend, such as here. I think the best evidence that coconut sugar is a health hoax is the absence of evidence in reliable sources, meaning there's nothing to say about it other than "Although coconut sugar has increased consumer use as of 2017,<ref> there is no evidence it provides any nutritional or health benefits." --Zefr (talk) 16:28, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

That sentence sounds good, Zefr, do please find such a ref and add it. Please add something on neera, too. HLHJ (talk) 20:38, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
I also never said that coconut sugar and neera are the same products. I said that the sap made into coconut sugar is neera.
I'm afraid that this discussion has made me feel offended. If you could take care in your representation of my statements, and assume that I have an interest in the truth, I would be grateful and much happier with this interaction. HLHJ (talk) 14:17, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
I provided responses above to your points. There's no need to assume bad faith in discussing these topics. Our goal should be stating facts objectively supported by strong sources, which unfortunately are mainly absent from the articles on neera and coconut sugar. --Zefr (talk) 14:37, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
I do not assume that you are in bad faith. I assume that you offended me unintentionally, and we'd both prefer to discuss the content without causing or failing to assuage needless offense. HLHJ (talk) 17:37, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

References

Benty Grange helmet photograph

Hey HLHJ, thanks again for stepping in and cleaning up that photograph of the Benty Grange helmet. I've been trying to clean up the various Anglo-Saxon/Scandinavian helmet photos for a while; that one, with such a messy background, was at the top of the list, but between Photoshop Elements 5 and a general lack of skill, I had no chance. Looks infinitely better now. --Usernameunique (talk) 07:41, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

You're welcome, Usernameunique. It sort of sucked me in. I'm glad it worked out (and I followed it enough to poke the person who put it in Template:Did_you_know/Preparation_area_6 because they used the image with the white background, though I don't think it's that critical).
If you are wanting to do this sort of thing, I recommend the GIMP. I haven't used Photoshop much, but I like the GIMP better. It's copyleft software, so free, and maintained by people who use it all the time, which is good and bad. It has an insanely steep learning curve. If I am trying to learn how to do something, I follow a tutorial, otherwise I just get frustrated. But once you know how to do something, it's fast and easy. If you leave the Layers, Tools and Colours dialogues open, it also helps, since you can see if you have the wrong thing selected. For this sort of job, you need either the "Foreground select" tool or the "Intelligent scissors" tool. There are scads of good tutorials on how to use both online, and if that's all you want to learn to do, it will probably only take you a quarter-hour or so. HLHJ (talk) 04:38, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

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DYK nomination of Further research is needed

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October 2017

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DYK for Further research is needed

Updated DYK query.svgOn 24 October 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Further research is needed, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that in a sample of medical reviews, useless treatments were just as likely to be recommended for further research as were useful treatments? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Further research is needed. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Further research is needed), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

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A barnstar for you!

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"More research is needed into methods to determine when more research is needed" Hongooi (talk) 08:10, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Belated thanks, Hongooi. You've given me my first barnstar. HLHJ (talk) 02:32, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Wow! Kudos!

Hey HLHJ, I just read Pavement light, having seen it mentioned on the DYK talk page. I thought it was a fascinating article, with cool pics and all kinds of interesting exploration of the practicalities, history and geographic distribution. Hope it's not weird to get a message like this, but it was a great read and it occurred to me that I could tell you so. 70.67.222.124 (talk) 14:48, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi, 70.67.222.124. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I was sort of worried that there were too many black-and-white pictures. I'll be adding a few more soon. There are some definitely creepy uses of edit records, but there is no way your charming message falls in that category. Thank you very much for taking the trouble to write it, it made me happy. HLHJ (talk) 02:44, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Pavement light

Updated DYK query.svgOn 3 December 2017, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Pavement light, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the purple "jewels" (pictured) in old sidewalks are pavement lights, which bend daylight into the basement below? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Pavement light. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Pavement light), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Alex Shih (talk) 00:02, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

What a genuinely interesting DYK about something so commonly seen, but which I'd never really thought about before. Good work! Bob talk 11:50, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Precious

pavement light

Cornflower blue Yogo sapphire.jpg

Thank you for quality articles such as pavement light, Ofada rice, Afripedia Project and MyDemocracy.ca, for redirects, and catgories such as Category:Species endangered by destruction of specific ecosystems, for adding books and refs, and patience and diligence, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

for the record ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:44, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, Gerda Arendt. I was pretty amazed by that, and by the amount of clickthrough to the articles linked from pavement light. HLHJ (talk) 02:02, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
A great image with a mysterious purple ;) - My lead image today and its article are simpler. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:46, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

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Merger discussion for Coconut sugar

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An article that you have been involved in editing—Coconut sugar—has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Phonet (talk) 08:24, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Using templates for sources

Concerning this edit, please learn how to fill out references properly using either the simple drop-down template (from the pick list) in the upper left of an edit box, or from WP:CIT. Try to think of common users wanting information about sources at a glance, rather than being offered only a URL as your current edit provided. Thanks. --Zefr (talk) 16:35, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

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Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Jytdog (talk) 03:32, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the warning, Jytdog. How would you suggest I proceed? HLHJ (talk) 03:42, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
I suggest you work toward consensus on the talk page. That is what it is for. The content about health needs improving but relying so heavily on (for example) the 15 year old WHO ref is not going to fly in any effort to reach consensus. Jytdog (talk) 03:46, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Conflicts of interest in academic publishing

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The article Conflicts of interest in academic publishing has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

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While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. GigglesnortHotel (talk) 18:21, 29 March 2018 (UTC)


Question about clarification request at Group testing

Hi HLHJ, CheChe here. I noticed that you recently added a 'clarification needed' tag to part of Group testing. I want to make sure the article is clear, but I'm having trouble seeing what might be ambiguous (or confusing) about that particular sentence. I appreciate that's probably just because I wrote it in the first place, so I'd like to ask if you could explain what the trouble you're having is? It would really help. Thanks, ♫CheChe♫ talk 21:06, 5 April 2018 (UTC).

Hi, ♫CheChe♫. Sorry, I should have clarified my request for clarification. It was the adjective "information-lower-bound" that I found unclear; could you maybe wikilink it? The first part of the article is admirably clear; I haven't gone through the rest in detail yet. HLHJ (talk) 18:45, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Ahh, I see. I hadn't realised that the term hadn't been used yet in the article. I've added a wiki-link to the relevant part for now, but I may revisit this later (to add an explanatory footnote or bracket). Thanks again, ♫CheChe♫ talk 22:16, 6 April 2018 (UTC).

DYK nomination of Conflicts of interest in academic publishing

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Conflicts of interest in academic publishing at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:53, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

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GOCE Requests page

Hello HLHJ, thank you for doing copy-edits at the Guild of Copy Editors; it's always good to see new copy-editors there. In future though, when you accept copy-editing requests at the Requests page, can you please mark them with the {{Working}} template? This lets others know which requests are being worked on so you both avoid edit conflicts and overwriting each other's edits. You should mark the request with {{Done}} when you're finished or {{partly done}} if you can't finish the c/e or you feel the article needs more c/e work. Also, please avoid adding extensive comments about the c/e or the article's content to the Requests page; short comments regarding the request itself that inform other editors are fine though. This helps keep the page uncluttered and usable. Extended comments about the request should go on the Requests talk page and extended comments about article content should go on the article's talk page. Discussions with other editors should go on either of your talk pages. That said; welcome to the GOCE; I hope you enjoy copy-editing there. :) Cheers, Baffle gab1978 04:49, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice, Baffle gab1978. I'm sorry if I edit-conflicted you. I should have read up on the system first. HLHJ (talk) 04:54, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

No problem; your edits didn't conflict with mine but it's possible if two editors accept the same request, and it can also cause friction between editors. There are some instructions for copy-editors at the top of the Requests page in the first expandable area (click on "show" to find them). I've credited you as co-copy-editor in the archive for your work on Death of Ms Dhu. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 05:24, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

File:No-one likes a quitter, e-cigarette ad.jpg

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File:Goody two shoes cigarette ad.jpg

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Alert

Commons-emblem-notice.svg This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding the Electronic cigarette topic area, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you that sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

QuackGuru (talk) 03:12, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for telling me, QuackGuru. I had seen the odd notice at the top of a page, but I'd never looked up what "discretionary sanctions" meant before. I've now read up on it. I haven't actually read every Wikipedia policy, though... Please let me know of any specific things in my editing that might be problematic. I realize that the topic is controversial, I want to edit it well, and I think a range of viewpoints is necessary to editing it well. If I'm out-of-line, I'll do my best to fix, and if I'm out-of-line because I am ignorant, or might become so, I really appreciate it when my fellow editors fix that.

Side note: tree shaping is controversial? Not, off hand, something I would have guessed... HLHJ (talk) 03:39, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

The topic is not controversial. What editors are doing is. QuackGuru (talk) 03:55, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Restoring disputed content

You restored this content and made slight changes, but the content contains off-topic content, unreliable sources, and failed verification content. Do you agree you will stop adding or restoring off-topic content, unreliable sources, and failed verification content? QuackGuru (talk) 15:21, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Replies on article talk page. HLHJ (talk) 05:53, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Marketing of e-cigarettes

This article is littered with off-topic content and unreliable sources and failed verification content. For example, the article contains content about safety, addictiveness, harm to bystanders, use by non-smokers, stress, dieting, cost, and smoking cessation. Those are not about marketing. There is also a lot of unsourced content. The article is called "Marketing of e-cigarettes" but it is about e-cigarettes in general which cover different topics. That is what the main page is for. That is by definition a WP:CONTENTFORK. You have not cleaned up the content fork. QuackGuru (talk) 16:54, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Replies on article talk page. HLHJ (talk) 05:53, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Marketing of e-cigarettes

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Marketing of e-cigarettes at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Chumash11 (talk) 20:56, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Edit warring

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Your recent editing history at Marketing of electronic cigarettes shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. QuackGuru (talk) 19:16, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

QuackGuru, I've been reverting edits by IPs that remove large chunks of material and replace it with unsourced things that don't even make sense. I will stop reverting them and ask for semi-protection. HLHJ (talk) 19:20, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Your full reverts of IPs is disputed on the talk page. Do you agree to stop restoring off-topic content and failed verification content? QuackGuru (talk) 19:29, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
Replies on article talk page. HLHJ (talk) 20:31, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
You have replied on the talk page but you have not agreed to stop restoring off-topic content and failed verification content. Again, do you agree to stop restoring off-topic content and failed verification content? QuackGuru (talk) 20:41, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
Replies on article talk page. HLHJ (talk) 21:08, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Marketing of electronic cigarettes

Notice

The article Marketing of electronic cigarettes has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

POV Fork

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. QuackGuru (talk) 20:45, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

I am surprised and perplexed, QuackGuru. You've put a lot of effort into editing that page. HLHJ (talk) 20:54, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
If the tag is removed without removing the off-topic content there is going to be a serious problem. QuackGuru (talk) 21:05, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
What serious problem, QuackGuru? Deleting it would be a normal part of the WP:PROD process, as far as I can tell. HLHJ (talk) 03:02, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

ENDS marketing listed at Redirects for discussion

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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect ENDS marketing. Since you had some involvement with the ENDS marketing redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 00:24, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Misrepresenting the image

This edit added content to the image that is using sources that do not describing the image and is not about marketing. I responded on the talk page. For example, the part "This 2011 e-cigarette ad uses several standard marketing methods: emphasizing choice, freedom, and rebellion[10]" does not mention the 2011 ad. QuackGuru (talk) 16:55, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

You did not fix the issues with the caption. What source is about blu e-cigs ads? QuackGuru (talk) 18:09, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Replies on article talk page. Separately, it is fine to just notify me by including a Template:User link in an edit, if you don't want to post a second time on my user talk page; I will see that just as fast, generally. HLHJ (talk) 18:14, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
The replies on the talk page did not address "What source is about blu e-cigs ads?" If no source mentioned the ad then it probably does not belong in the caption. QuackGuru (talk) 18:18, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
If you think the text does not misrepresent the image then please explain how the source verifies the claim when it does not mention the 2011 ad. QuackGuru (talk) 20:46, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Heat-not-burn tobacco product concerns

Issues related to your edits are being discussed on the talk page. If the issues are not addressed soon the content can be deleted or moved to the talk page. The excessive citations are also causing a verification problem. It is difficult to determine which source verifies which claim when all the citations are placed at the end of the sentence. QuackGuru (talk) 19:18, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Replies on article talk page. HLHJ (talk) 05:29, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Snus

I was editing the article. I noticed there is a problem in the lead. The Food and Drug Administration ruled in 2015 that there was not sufficient evidence to permit snus to be advertised as a safer alternative to smoking.[4][unreliable medical source?] It was not about snus in general. It was a specific brand and the source is incompatible with MEDRS. QuackGuru (talk) 15:02, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Replies on article talk page. If you could please post about articles on article talk pages, and add a WP:PING, I will see it just as fast, and replying will be faster for me. HLHJ (talk) 03:51, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Goody two shoes cigarette ad.jpg

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DYK nomination of Conflicts of interest in academic publishing

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Conflicts of interest in academic publishing at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BlueMoonset (talk) 21:36, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:No-one likes a quitter, e-cigarette ad.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:No-one likes a quitter, e-cigarette ad.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:38, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Conflicts of interest in academic publishing

Updated DYK query.svgOn 3 July 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Conflicts of interest in academic publishing, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that supplements and "symposia" published by academic journals may be paid publications, neither independently peer-reviewed nor edited by journal staff? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Conflicts of interest in academic publishing. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Conflicts of interest in academic publishing), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 00:02, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Zoë Porphyrogenita

Hi HLHJ. Good to hear that you are still with us and back on Wikipedia. Thanks for posting an apology on the DYK. That was thoughtful of you. As you probably saw. A hook made it in the end. I hope that you will return to your fruitful editing of the past. Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 00:47, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Sugar edits

On my talk page, you said: "this is just to let you know that I've left a message for you at Talk:Sugar#Funding of health research. Thanks!" I read your comments, but have to say I feel the issue is settled for now. I don't want to be involved in a discussion other than improving the article according to editor consensus. --Zefr (talk) 17:57, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Your note at Talk:Sugar

I suggest you review this comment and strike the implication that Zefr is an industry shill. You may or may not know that I work a lot on paid editing and COI issues, and I have no tolerance for that kind of commentary, and will seek community action against you if you continue. It is possible to discuss content disputes on the article talk page without going there. Jytdog (talk) 02:59, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

I really didn't mean to imply that. I meant to say that it's easy to cite incorrect information; I've done it, in that article. I will edit the comment to make that clear. HLHJ (talk) 03:02, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
OK, thanks! Jytdog (talk) 15:03, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
Jytdog, I thank you for finding fault with my editing; there is no shortage of such faults, and having them pointed out is helpful. In this case I clearly failed to judge the effect of my post, and I am glad to have it resolved.
I hope most editors follow policies on principle, not because of the consequences of not doing so. I think I do. May I ask that, when you are asking me to change a behaviour, you initially not raise the subject of consequences? My reasons for this preference aren't rational, but I'd feel better. HLHJ (talk) 01:22, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
OK that is reasonable. My apologies. Jytdog (talk) 01:33, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
Accepted; I should have been more careful, and not wasted your time. Apologies. HLHJ (talk) 01:43, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 7

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Ventilated cigarette, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Dilution (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

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Failed verification content

You stated "QuackGuru, I am even more confused. You wrote "They are marketed as "smoke-free" products is supported by the first source", which seems to contradict your earlier tagging of the statement as fv, and at least part of your reason for removing the sentence."[2]

It does not contradict the tagging. The content "Strategies for marketing iQOS include marketing it as "smoke-free"," is different than "They are marketed as "smoke-free" products." Do you agree you won't add failed verification content to nicotine related articles? I have responded to your comments on the talk page for months. You are continuing to propose content that appears to failed verification or is previously disputed. You also wrote "and as you say one source would be enough to support it,"[3] I did not say that. They are different accounts of different things. For example, the second source is about the promotion of IQOS in Ontario, Canada.[4] QuackGuru (talk) 17:05, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Replied in ongoing discussion on article talk page. HLHJ (talk) 01:03, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

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An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Free produce movement, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page William Fox (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

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Talkback

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Hello, HLHJ. You have new messages at Wikipedia talk:Did you know.
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Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:20, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Template:Did you know nominations/Sturm Cigarette Company at the Did You Know nominations page is not complete; if you would like to continue, please link the nomination to the nominations page as described in step 3 of the nomination procedure. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{db-g7}}, or ask a DYK admin. Thank you. DYKHousekeepingBot (talk) 11:01, 16 September 2018 (UTC)